Pond Fish - Do You Like Catching Them?

[Andy_1984]

Dales, because carp dont appear (and dont hang me for this if im wrong) to have any problems coping with having lack of scales or big orange and black spots, be pure white etc etc where as a barbel, you could argue, need their natural environment to thrive. imagine sticking a penguin in the desert. maybe not so extreme but you get the picture.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Andy_1984

[Dales]

Dales, because carp dont appear (and dont hang me for this if im wrong) to have any problems coping with having lack of scales or big orange and black spots, be pure white etc etc where as a barbel, you could argue, need their natural environment to thrive. imagine sticking a penguin in the desert. maybe not so extreme but you get the picture.

 

 

I think you are right on the scale front, but we use and abuse other species. So why should we afford one species better treatment then another?

 

Barbel when stocked in still waters seem to be in commercials, the sort no one seems overly fond of it. So it's only another stock fish, that will get caught over and over again and not have a full life anyway. So why care if it does not adjust so well and thrive, it's going to be crushed in a 100lb match net anyway or if it escapes that the best it can hope for is a few ripped fins in a keep net or some lip adjustment work.

 

So is the Barbel any worse off in the sort of places they get stocked then any other fish species. At least they have the power to bully other species away from the aerator.

[Jeffwill]

Lots of places have them as a result (as Chesters says) of them out growing tanks/garden ponds and being dumped.Some "fisheries" stock them intentionally as a novelty! Some get them due to poor stock management when they buy in their latest top up of small carp!

 

In my opinion the introduction of any fish from the ornamental trade is EXTREMELY bad news! be they intentional or accidental. This is where most of the "modern" diseases that have ravaged the natural stock of carp (and what a lot don't realise) and other indigenous species.The ornamental trade is rife with disease.

 

Not only is disease a problem,look at the problem with Crucians that years of interbreeding with Brown Gold fish has caused.The true Crucian is now a pretty rare fish!

 

 

Summed up very nicely there Budgie especially regarding the pure crucian, a lovely looking fish indeed but rare due to the goldfish trade.

[Jeffwill]

Lots of places have them as a result (as Chesters says) of them out growing tanks/garden ponds and being dumped.Some "fisheries" stock them intentionally as a novelty! Some get them due to poor stock management when they buy in their latest top up of small carp!

 

In my opinion the introduction of any fish from the ornamental trade is EXTREMELY bad news! be they intentional or accidental. This is where most of the "modern" diseases that have ravaged the natural stock of carp (and what a lot don't realise) and other indigenous species.The ornamental trade is rife with disease.

 

Not only is disease a problem,look at the problem with Crucians that years of interbreeding with Brown Gold fish has caused.The true Crucian is now a pretty rare fish!

 

 

Summed up very nicely there Budgie especially regarding the pure crucian, a beautiful looking fish indeed but unfortunately quick to cross breed with "discarded" goldfish and common carp.

[Dales]

In the event that it is possible to ensure that no fish can escape and spread disease out side the fishery or not escape and interfere with natives (Maybe wishful thinking and easier said then done)

 

But if you could, does it make any difference what you stock with? Goldfish, Koi etc

 

All these fish tend only to be stocked in commercials and waters with a very high stock of fish. So if contained is it any worse then stocking natives at high density.

 

Barbel in commercial still waters does seem to provoke a reaction, but as they are being stocked in high density stocked waters, how can it be worse then doing it to other species.

 

Surely fish stocked in commercial/match waters only need to fulfil a few criteria.

 

1/ Be fairly easy to catch.

 

2/ Hardy enough to survive multiple catches and maybe dodgy handling

 

3/ Be able to cope with being over crowded.

 

By the fact that a water is over stocked, the fish welfare argument that still waters are not suited to Barbel is irrelevant because if fish welfare was high on the agenda, no species would be densely stocked. So why are Barbel in still water such an emotive subject?

 

Surely most commercials are not an ideal environment for any fish and many of them look washed out when compared to others from more natural waters.

 

Fishery owners would not stock Barbel if they all went belly up after one capture and so they must tick all the requirements needed for a commercial stocked fish, it might not be nice but is it any worse for them then any other fish?

[chesters1]

Dales, because carp dont appear (and dont hang me for this if im wrong) to have any problems coping with having lack of scales or big orange and black spots, be pure white etc etc where as a barbel, you could argue, need their natural environment to thrive. imagine sticking a penguin in the desert. maybe not so extreme but you get the picture.

most penguins dont live in the snow

http://www.patagonia-argentina.com/i/atlan...adryn/tombo.php

looks a bit deserty

Edited March 4, 2011 by chesters1

[Tigger]

Even though I've never fished a stillwater venue for barbel I can't actually see a problem with them being in there if the water is of good quality and a decent size. Barbel do naturally get stranded in still waters on occassions when rivers flood and seem to do perfectly well. If someone's prepared to fork out the cash and buy them for their fishery then good luck to them. Barbel vary in colour in rivers, I've had golden one's metalic looking one's, faded one's etc etc.

 

Regarding fishing for goldfish/ ornamental pondfish; again good luck to anyone who wants to stock them but it doesn't really do it for me - so on that note (as they say in dragons den) I'm out

[chesters1]

LLLYYYYNNNNNNNNN

[Anderoo]

In the event that it is possible to ensure that no fish can escape and spread disease out side the fishery or not escape and interfere with natives (Maybe wishful thinking and easier said then done)

If that was possible no fish would ever escape and no disease would ever spread, so I think we can safely assume it's inevitable at some point.

 

But if you could, does it make any difference what you stock with? Goldfish, Koi etc

 

All these fish tend only to be stocked in commercials and waters with a very high stock of fish. So if contained is it any worse then stocking natives at high density.

Stocking 'natives' or 'ornamentals' at very high densities amounts to the same thing in animal welfare terms. To me personally, stocking ornamentals is worse simply because I think it only serves to make modern fishing even more artificial.

 

Barbel in commercial still waters does seem to provoke a reaction, but as they are being stocked in high density stocked waters, how can it be worse then doing it to other species.

I assume you're playing devil's advocate, but I think barbel are a special case. I can understand more the desire to stock with koi and orfe and other garden pond species, just because there's no other way you can fish for them in the UK (assuming you want to). Wild, river barbel are a short drive for most people, and there's no good reason to tip the poor things into a horrible little muddy pond, other than £££. They are a river fish, and are never found naturally in little ponds.

[Tigger]

They are a river fish, and are never found naturally in little ponds.

 

 

Of course they are, as I've already said they will take refuge in ponds, lakes etc when a river is in flood and often get stranded when the river drops. People have the same ideas about chub and disagree with them being stocked into still waters and yet in truth they do seem to thrive !

At the end of the day I think barbel are quite expensive so if someone is prepared to flash the cash to purchase some for their water then that's their choice surely ?