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Guest barry ford

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Guest STEVE POPE

OK, I've read the article and will now add my own threepennorth for what it's worth.

 

1) There is very little chance of foulhooking when trundling/rolling meat for barbel.I know many anglers who are well versed in this method and have been practicing it for many years and they will all confirm this.

The reasons why include, the fact you are searching out individual fish,the manner in which the fish approaches the bait, the way your line hangs in the water and the fact your bait is actually buried in the hook.

If there had been a problem with this method it would certainly have come to our attention long before now.

 

2) Do not confuse the moving bait methods with static touch legering where I would agree that in less experienced hands there will always be a slight danger of foul hooking, it is unavoidable.

 

3) The greatest chance of foulhooking comes when the barbel have their heads down in a heavily pre-baited swim. But even then, as long as you wait for a "proper" bite and do not strike at every nod ,twitch or pull the risk is negligible.

Over the years, many thousands of barbel have been caught by my friends employing all manner of methods, and the number of foulhooked fish has been minimal,less than half a percent.

 

Moving on,

 

4) There is a responsibility on anyone who writes articles, teaches or gives talk/slide shows to be absolutely sure the advice they are giving to anyone, will be "Safe in Their Hands".

A set of tools is only as good as the person who is using them,and forgive me if that sounds patronising, it isn't meant to be taken that way.

Not everyone who picks up a golf club can hit a ball like Tiger Woods,not everyone who dons a pair of football boots will be able to kick a ball like David Beckham.

It is no different with fishing tackle.

 

5)No matter what Ray or anyone else says,using 30lb. braid on the river Kennet is not something that should be promoted under any circumstances.

I've heard all of Ray's reasons, I was actually fishing with him on the Wye on the day previously mentioned,and I'm not convinced.

The Wye is not the Kennet, my advice to Ray would be to get on to Bruce and Walker and get a couple more rollin' pins.

Then load them with line more in keeping with the venue being fished.

 

6) I know that when Ray fishes he has a direct connection to the hook,ie, a plasticine "weight" that can easily pull free and no swivel to a hook link that could foul up.

However a snagged fish attached to 30lb. braid would present problems to most anglers.

Do you carry a glove to hand pull the line ?

The hook is likely to staighten before the line goes, but is that a safe and reliable option bearing in mind the constant quest for stronger and stronger hooks. Think about it.

I recall fishing on the Ouse a couple of years ago with Phil Buckingham, Phil was experimenting at the time with Spiderwire Fusion. He hooked a large barbel that snagged him. The resulting effort to free the fish ended with his rod literally exploding! You would not have believed it.

 

7)In open water with no snags, 8lb mono is more than adequate.

If snags are nearby, you shouldn't be fishing right in them anyway, 10 to 14lb braid would suffice.

On the Ouse where you are fishing for one bite that could produce a 16lb fish then 14lb braid is what I would use.

 

It's all about opinion I know, but I really do feel strongly about the point I have made in item 4.

 

Excuse me while I tuck my head down below the parapet !

 

Good Fishin'

 

Steve.

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Guest Steve Randles

Steve..Given that Ray is conservation minded, can you see any reason why he would use 30lb braid?

 

Surely he has decided to use this b/s of braid for valid reasons?

 

Tight Lines

 

Steve Randles

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Guest STEVE POPE

Hi Steve,

 

It's awkward to speak on Ray's behalf especially when I disagree with him on this one. I'll try to speak to him on the phone and relay his views if he isn't coming back on line in the near future.

I'm pretty sure his main concern was the leaving of baited hooks on the river bed in the event of breakage.

But in my opinion you have to weigh that against the negative repercussions.

I can envisage people using even stronger braid on the pretext they are fishing snaggier areas than Ray.

I suspect the day is only just around the corner when you will be able to buy line at the right price thst has a breaking strain of say 100lbs and is as thin as 2 !

Would you use it? Should you use it?

Here's one and I know Gordon will come back at me, If fishing is a sport should the fish have a sporting chance albeit very small?

You tell me ?!!!

 

Yours thoughtfully,

 

Steve.

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Guest barry ford
Originally posted by STEVE POPE:

OK, I've read the article and will now add my own threepennorth for what it's worth.

 

1) There is very little chance of foulhooking when trundling/rolling meat for barbel.I know many anglers who are well versed in this method and have been practicing it for many years and they will all confirm this.

The reasons why include, the fact you are searching out individual fish,the manner in which the fish approaches the bait, the way your line hangs in the water and the fact your bait is actually buried in the hook.

If there had been a problem with this method it would certainly have come to our attention long before now.

 

2) Do not confuse the moving bait methods with static touch legering where I would agree that in less experienced hands there will always be a slight danger of foul hooking, it is unavoidable.

 

3) The greatest chance of foulhooking comes when the barbel have their heads down in a heavily pre-baited swim. But even then, as long as you wait for a "proper" bite and do not strike at every nod ,twitch or pull the risk is negligible.

Over the years, many thousands of barbel have been caught by my friends employing all manner of methods, and the number of foulhooked fish has been minimal,less than half a percent.

 

Moving on,

 

4) There is a responsibility on anyone who writes articles, teaches or gives talk/slide shows to be absolutely sure the advice they are giving to anyone, will be "Safe in Their Hands".

A set of tools is only as good as the person who is using them,and forgive me if that sounds patronising, it isn't meant to be taken that way.

Not everyone who picks up a golf club can hit a ball like Tiger Woods,not everyone who dons a pair of football boots will be able to kick a ball like David Beckham.

It is no different with fishing tackle.

 

5)No matter what Ray or anyone else says,using 30lb. braid on the river Kennet is not something that should be promoted under any circumstances.

I've heard all of Ray's reasons, I was actually fishing with him on the Wye on the day previously mentioned,and I'm not convinced.

The Wye is not the Kennet, my advice to Ray would be to get on to Bruce and Walker and get a couple more rollin' pins.

Then load them with line more in keeping with the venue being fished.

 

6) I know that when Ray fishes he has a direct connection to the hook,ie, a plasticine "weight" that can easily pull free and no swivel to a hook link that could foul up.

However a snagged fish attached to 30lb. braid would present problems to most anglers.

Do you carry a glove to hand pull the line ?

The hook is likely to staighten before the line goes, but is that a safe and reliable option bearing in mind the constant quest for stronger and stronger hooks. Think about it.

I recall fishing on the Ouse a couple of years ago with Phil Buckingham, Phil was experimenting at the time with Spiderwire Fusion. He hooked a large barbel that snagged him. The resulting effort to free the fish ended with his rod literally exploding! You would not have believed it.

 

7)In open water with no snags, 8lb mono is more than adequate.

If snags are nearby, you shouldn't be fishing right in them anyway, 10 to 14lb braid would suffice.

On the Ouse where you are fishing for one bite that could produce a 16lb fish then 14lb braid is what I would use.

 

It's all about opinion I know, but I really do feel strongly about the point I have made in item 4.

 

Excuse me while I tuck my head down below the parapet !

 

Good Fishin'

 

Steve.

Hi Steve,

At last a barbel angler who can talk some sense.

 

Are you sure you have no hang ups?

Your comments in item 4 are spot on. I totaly agree the Kennet is not the place for 30lb hauling rope.

 

You have also answered Gordons question for me but I will add to that, If you are useing a 1lb test rod say in a swim with a overhanging tree on the far bank you hook a good barbel it makes for the snag you cannot stop it,what will happen if you lock everything down? Answer your 1lb test rod breaks the fish makes the snag and entangles it's self, how do you get it out when it is tethered by 30lb line? Would it not be better to be useing balanced takle say 8lb line with the 1lb test rod if the same set of circumstaces arose as already mentiod would the fish not have a better chance of escape from a snag when only tethered with 8lb line.

 

I hope that has answered your question Gordon?

 

Perhaps Steve P can answer one for me?

Why is it that any question related to barbel angling is treated as criticism or an attack on barbel anglers? I ask that question because Gordon seems to think along these lines.

Cheers and tight lines Barry.

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'..should the fish have a sporting chance..'?

Good question. A sporting chance of what? Getting wrapped up in reeds,breaking the line and maybe lugging around a mouthful of ironmongery forever and a day? Can't see the point myself. Suspect you'd agree?

Then again catching half pound roach on fine tackle is great fun, but on a carp rod with 10lb line no fun at all.

I suppose,in the end, you have to consider what you're reasonably *likely* to catch. If you know there's big fish around, tackle up accordingly.

Sodding irrelevant in my case. Had one small perch and a minnow in the last 3 Sunday morning sessions wink.gif

 

cheers

 

Glenn

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Guest STEVE POPE

Hi Barry,

 

Let me first of all put your mind at rest regarding barbel anglers.

There are not many out there who I have not come into contact with over the years and that is to be expected by virtue of my position in the Barbel Society, and I can honestly say with only one or two exceptions they are the best group of people you could wish to meet.

Sure there is plenty of banter and lots of disagreement over all manner of things but thats how it should be and I'd like to think no one holds any grudges. I certainly don't, life is just too short.

One of my pet hates in fishing is how some people like to pigeon hole others. You know the type of thing, " That so and so , he's a right....., because he says such and such a thing."

What they mean is they disagree over a specific point of view and that gives them the right to slate the person totally, conveniently ignoring the fact they may agree with them on many other issues.

I've just written at length about this very subject for the next issue of Barbel Fisher, and that brings me nicely onto Gordon.

Now I've known Gordon for more years than I care to remember, he is an exceptional angler and a very thoughtful one as well. He is also extremely talented with words as anyone who has read the Barbel Fisher magazine for the last four or five years will testify,Gordon was editor.

Make no mistake Gordon is an OK guy, and so is Ray.

We are all thinking anglers,some may be a bit more mature than others, but no-one knows it all and that is why discussion and debate is healthy.

If there are any barbel anglers out there who are not in the Barbel Society, feel free to e-mail me and I'll be only too pleased to give you more information.

 

See ya,

 

Steve.

 

p.s. Glen picked it up straight away, I purposely left out the remainder of the sentence to get the response.

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Guest Steve Randles

Had one small perch and a minnow in the last 3 Sunday morning sessions wink.gif

 

Glenn...Thats one more Perch and three minnows more than me!

 

Tight Lines

 

Steve Randles]

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Guest Gordon Scott

Absolutely, positively, my last words on this thread (or not rolleyes.gif )

Firstly, Barry. No, I don't think that barbel anglers are any more touchy, tetchy or hyper-sensitive than any other specialists - and I'll floor the first person who disagrees with me!

Is a barbel (or any other fish) more likely to survive tethering on a fine line than a heavy one? Now we could argue this one 'til the cows come home, as I suspect most of us (including me) have never encountered tethered fish, although we all know it can, and does happen. IMO what causes tethering is dodgy rigs, not line strength or lack of it. OK, if a barbel was tethered on 2lb. or less mono it could probably break free, but on more realistic strengths I'm not so sure.

A while ago, Phil Buckingham (yes,him again) and Fred Crouch found a barbel tethered beneath the sill at King's Weir on the Lea. The barbel (10+) had a hook in its mouth attached to nylon of no more than 5lb. strength. Tied to the end of the hooklength was a normal sized swivel which had jammed in a crack between two rocks forming the weir sill.Despite all their nursing the barbel did not recover, and now adorns Phil's living room wall (stuffed, natch!)

So, without doubt, in some circumstances even fairly modest breaking strains can tether fish, even when sensible rigs are used. Maybe, just maybe, if the angler had been using thirty pound braid with absolutely nothing on the line but the hook that barbel would still be swimming.

As to the rod breaking when used with these high breaking strain lines, unless there's a flaw in the blank, this really shouldn't happen unless the rod-wielder has more strength than sense; you can put a quite frightening bend in a good rod without it self-destructing, much more than you ever would while fishing, believe me. And if the rod did go, as covered above, the fish has as equal a chance almost regardless of line strength. I know we all have a gut reaction when hearing of anglers using super-heavy lines, I know I did when I first read about pikers using 80 - 100lb lines for jerkbaiting. Still not sure about the 6/0 trebles though...

Steve, though I'm not trying to second-guess Ray's motives for using the B.S. line he does, I suspect it has to do with abrasion resistance. 30lb. braid is not much more than 10lb. mono thick and has a similar, possibly worse, resistance to abrasion. As for the Kennet or whatever being different to the Wye, why? (sorry!) A snag in the Kennet is EXACTLY the same as a snag in the Wye, or the Orinoco come to that.

Whew, glad I've got that little lot off my chest,

P.S. Yes, I definitely think Rollin' Ray is a model barbel angler, (Dictionary definition of 'model'= "Small copy of the real thing")

 

Gordon

 

 

[This message has been edited by Gordon Scott (edited 03 September 2000).]

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Guest Graham E

Can anyone join in?

Rolling meat. In anyone's parlance is called freelining. There is no mystic method.

You cast upstream into a likely swim after putting in a few free samples earlier.

Holding the line in your freehand you mend it back to you, or let it trickle through downstream.

When the fish take it, you have no doubt - and you raisew the rod and hook them.

The secret is to use a weight to match the flow.

I use a simple 8lb maxima and a number of shot/or none dependent on the flow.

Any line that will present the bait naturally (not tow it) and a rod that is sufficient to stop a run to a snag will work.

Anything over 8lb line in snag free water is overkill. Try breaking this line with a test curve 1.1/4. Bloody hard.

Snag water, go upwards.

No mystery about rolling meat.

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Guest Steelheader69

Is there any way I can access this article you're talking about? I'm new here and live in the US. I will give my opinion on what I've read.

 

First, a fish can be foulhooked, even being buried in bait. I've seen numerous fish foulhooked in the tail and side while the hook is buried in a cluster of eggs.

 

Second, a fishing rod is designed for a soul purpose. A line rating is there for a reason. Of course you can use lighter or heavier line on a rod, but use heavier line at a serious discretion. Overloading a rod can cause damage. Usually you want the line to snap before the rod will, hence line ratings. There was the craze with using Berkeley Fireline, and also damaged rods went up. From personal experience I've seen at least a dozen people snap rods on braided line. Usually from horsing a fish in, putting too much pressure on a rod. Also, most braided lines have high knot strength, small diameter. One problem, most have very little abrasion resistence. I use Maxima Ultragreen on the majority of my fishing rods. High strength and high abrasion resistance and standard diameter is fine with me. I've tried Fireline, I didn't like it. I always seem to go back to mono.

 

If there is a link to see this article, let me know, then I'll respond again....Thanks...Jerry

 

------------------

You haven't lived until you've run a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts

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