Pike - Traces

[Stefan]

I have never been pike fishing, except the time i was perch fishing with worm and pulled in a 5lb pike. So when fishing for most species is it advised to have a weaker strength hook link (obvious reasons, but for pike I often see pictures of big pike in magazines, they say; 15lb to a 20lb wire trace. Why is a stonger trace used than the main line?

 

That doesn't make much sense, but I hope you get the idea, thanks in advance.

 

Stefan

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[davidP]

I'd always assumed this was for two reasons. The first is that it's actually pretty difficult to get wire lighter than those breaking strains, and the second is that if you do find lighter wire it would be extremely fragile when subjected to crimping, kinking or similar. I also get the feeling that people would instinctively not trust wire that was extremely thin. It may be strong but it simply wouldn't look like it.

[Jeff S]

Actually I use a 20lb trace with 30lb braid. I haven't had any problems with the combination.

I very much doubt that you would ever put the kind of pressure on a fish that would subject anything over the line rating and cause it to break.

 

Typically at least for me if I do put that kind of force on the line it was caught on a snag and never have I actually broke the trace only the line. Interesting how that works!!

 

It's a good idea to use the right equipment for the type of fish you are targeting. You wouldn't use a size 26 hook for pike and certainly not a trace for roach.. You might want to use a trace while fishing for perch though especially if there are pike present. (just quoting what I read here on AN)

 

In answer to your question.. I think it’s advisable to use something stronger to ensure the pike don’t bite through it. That’s the idea anyway. The majority of my fishing is in heavy cover and I can usually get my rig back if I use a stronger line and trace. Which isn’t always the case. It can be expensive (lures) and sure is worth it’s weight in gold. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve hooked large branches and stumps and still managed to straighten a hook or pull it in.

 

Happy Hunting

[Newt]

Anyone used/using titanium wire leaders (traces)? The material sounds excellent. Not cheap certainly but really well suited for making traces.

 

Some info and a source Here in case you aren't familiar with it. Or Here where they offer both titanium and 49 strand steel wire.

[The Diamond Geezer]

Stefan:

I have never been pike fishing, except the time i was perch fishing with worm and pulled in a 5lb pike. So when fishing for most species is it advised to have a weaker strength hook link (obvious reasons, but for pike I often see pictures of big pike in magazines, they say; 15lb to a 20lb wire trace. Why is a stonger trace used than the main line?

 

That doesn't make much sense, but I hope you get the idea, thanks in advance.

 

Stefan

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Stefan

Obviously you don't actually need 20 lb main line or trace wire to land a 20 lb pike because they are neutrally buoyant in water and you are only tussling against their strength and, of course, snags.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is the wet knot strength of your main line, which will be less than its dry, un-knotted, claimed BS!

 

One of the historical reasons for using a trace wire of slightly higher BS than the mainline, is because it's the trace wire that takes most of the punishment while fishing.

 

That said, I reckon it's the knot between your main line and your trace that's most critical, all other things being equal. I do a lot of sink & draw (wobbling, call it what you will) and I use 30 lb braid and 30 lb wire, or 20 lb braid and 20 lb wire, and I've had more than my quota of 20s & 30s with no problems. Of course, the type of rod you use, and your fishing skills, play an important part too!!

 

Hope this helps

 

DG :cool:

[Nugg]

The pike is built for speed, if only over a short distance, like a streamlined torpedo. If you were to latch onto a pike of say 20lb, you not only have to contend with the actual weight of 20lbs, you have the added force of the surges the pike will put in whilst you play it, this could treble the actual weight force put on the line.

The worst thing that can happen is that the trace or line can be bitten through or just break under the strain, which will leave the fish with hooks in its mouth preventing it from feeding, or trailing long lenghts of line on which it could get tethered, neither of these options should be allowed to happen and must be avoided, so take great care with the choice of your gear.

[The Diamond Geezer]

Nugg:

The pike is built for speed, if only over a short distance, like a streamlined torpedo. If you were to latch onto a pike of say 20 lb, you not only have to contend with the actual weight of 20 lbs, you have the added force of the surges the pike will put in whilst you play it, this could treble the actual weight force put on the line.

Nugg

 

I think that is a tad misleading! There's no way your tackle has to cope with an actual deadweight equivalent of 60 lbf when tussling with a 20 lb pike! While it's swimming around a 20 lb pike has an effective weight of its voume as water ... i.e. very little... thanks of course to its swim-bladder etc., otherwise it would sink Archimedes-wise, of course!

 

Think about it .. some people deadbait with 3 lb test-curve rods ..what does that tell you?!

 

It's only when/if you try a dead lift (instead of using a net!) or allow a pike to leap-about in the air, that it can really put a strain on your tackle.

 

I have done many practical tests with a load-cell (strain gauge) between the reel and various fight simulations and you see nothing like the loads you mention; the momentum of a 20 lb pike at some speed, yes, but that's a slightly different thing.

 

Some of the highest shock-load figures I have seen, though, are when using braid (which has very little stretch under load) and striking hard at what turns-out to be a snag etc. Then I have seen transient shock-load figures over a period of only milliseconds, in excess of 100 lbf, sufficient to shatter a rod ... and this does happen from time to time!

 

If you're fishing a snag-free venue (v v rare!), then, if you're a good angler fishing for say roach with 4 lb line, you can still net a 20 lb pike as happened to a match-angler in the middle of Norwich a while back, not that I'd recommend it!

 

For most piking (with the exception of jerkbaiting) main line and trace wire of 30 lb BS will more than suffice for most UK piking.

 

If as you suggest, when "latching on to a 20 lb pike", anglers frequently experienced forces of 3x20 lbf = 60 lbf, then their line would break, if its wet knot BS was less than 60 lbf.

 

Nev Fickling has caught more 20 lb pike than anyone else, ever, and I'm not aware of his having experienced the sorts of problems (i.e. high loads 3 times the dead-weight of the pike) that you mention. That said, better to fish too heavy (line-wise) than too light, especially if you're starting out. For more info please see the very helpful articles here at AN and at The Pike Anglers Club of GB

 

DG

 

[ 30. March 2003, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[Leon Roskilly]

Fishing for most other species, and when using a single hook, a lighter trace is used so that if the fish breaks free, the tackle is likely to break near the hook, and the fish will not be left trailing metres of line to tangle, and tether the fish to an underwater snag to await it's doom.

 

And particularly not to condemn the fish to towing weights, swimfeeders, floats etc behind it, perhaps fatally.

 

A short length of line attached to a single hook is likely to be lost pretty soon, or the hook to rust, or at least not to damage the fish.

 

(I've caught fish with obviously fairly old hooks still attached, doing the fish no more harm than a punk's decorative safety pin!)

 

Fishing for pike, with hard bony mouths, trebles are most commonly used, usually two pairs.

 

This presents a much different danger to the fish.

 

A treble left in a pike, even if hooked in the mouth, especially with a second treble attached, is likely to hook into the pike's next meal, meaning that it can't completely swallow it.

 

A treble left in a pike's gullet is likely to stich the gullet, so that nothing can be swallowed.

 

Pike also have teeth, and there is the ever present danger that unless the tackle at point of entry to its mouth is up to the job, it will be bitten off.

 

So, strong tackle at the point of entry is a must. A wire trace of at least eighteen inches is the minimum that should be used, even when spinning (I see a lot of 9" traces on sale in general tackle shops , a decent sized pike will easily engulf a bait, a 9" trace and bite off the mono line beyond).

 

For basic piking advice, have a look at http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/authors/leon04.htm

 

Tight Lines - leon

[The Diamond Geezer]

Leon

 

I quote from your article

 

Minimum 15lb bs line (I use 16lb braid, 25lb-40lb if using heavy lures) - you need to be able to pull baited hooks out of most snags, probably with a damaged and weakened line (you'll be amazed at how many swimfeeders etc you'll salvage!). Check your line and knots frequently for fraying or weakening, and discard at the first sign of problems.

 

Now I reckon that, bearing in-mind that Stefan has never been pike fishing and would presumably be just starting-out piking, 15 lb or 16 lb braid is more than a tad too low for line or wire Breaking Stress. I think you'll find that the general consensus is to start-out with 30 lb BS mainline and wire, and with braid, the diameter isn't an issue although it won't have anything like the abrasion resistance of a good modern mono of the same BS.

 

DG

 

[ 29. March 2003, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[Nugg]

Geez

Me thinks you misunderstand what I was saying, I certainly would not go to the length of using 60lb line, I in fact use 18lb braid and 25lb wire, which I consider to be most adequate, and I use a 2.5tc rod. I would not suggest that 60lb line is used in fact, I think 30 lb is a little over the top.

However you appaer to be the expert here, so who am I to argue