Fluorocarbon or fluoro-nylon co-polymer monos: would you give them another try?

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

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Originally posted by Julian:

 

In reply to DG:

 

....have been using the ESP stuff for 4 years or so.

 

On 12 lb BS I was getting around 8 lb knot strength so moved up to the 15 which gave me about 12lb – fine for the situation.

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I assume your knot BS figures were obtained (you don't say how i.e. the actual method) using dry, unconditioned line?

 

And, BTW, which knot wre you using?

 

And of course, you don't know (do you?) what the actual dry unknotted BS of the line is/was?

 

Assuming it was the claimed 12 lb, then your dry knot strength is only 66% .... I rest my case (see other thread re: Wet knot BS)

 

All good interesting stuff, to me anyway. Can't beat some self-test facts and figures.

 

DG

[Julian]

Tests were nothing fancy; dry tied rigs and measured weights, using simple overhand knots (best I’ve found).

 

quote:

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.... I rest my case

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Not really as simple as that. I pointed out in my first post that BS was a problem. However, upping the line BS of the line got me a knot strength I was happy with. In addition, on this particular water, this specific hook length out scores *ANY* other, be it braided or otherwise, so it’s not really as simple as you make it out to be. If upping the BS gets the results, then where’s the problem?

 

I’ve got ESP Ghost in three different breaking strains in may tackle bag – and they will remain there as long as they keep catching me fish.

[RUDD]

I use ESP Ghost and have never had a problem with in in 12lb breaking strain.

It has also outfished all other hooklengths for me on the waters I fish.

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

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Originally posted by Julian:

If upping the BS gets the results, then where’s the problem?

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.. well, where do I start .. diameter, presentation (poorer), suppleness (worse) ..

 

Can't agree that the over-hand knot is the best, i.e. strongest, wet .... what back-to-back pukka comparative data do you have to substantiate that?

 

And my whole point is ... that the only thing that matters is wet knot Breaking Strength, from a strength aspect, not mfs' claimed BSs on the spool... so testing your knotted line dry is .. well, work it out

 

There is an ISO/EN method used by EFFTA for these tests

 

DG

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

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Originally posted by RUDD:

 

I use ESP Ghost and have never had a problem with in in 12lb breaking strain. It has also outfished all other hooklengths for me on the waters I fish.

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Rudd

 

Which other hooklengths, as a matter of interest?

 

DG

[Julian]

LOL – Fishing is not all about ‘substantiating data’ you know! Take a chill pill!

 

quote:

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And my whole point is ... that the only thing that matters is wet knot Breaking Strength

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If this particular product works better for me than any other on a given water, gives me no problems during use, gives good presentation, puts fish on the bank on a regular and consistent basis – then the rest is simply *not* important.

 

You worry about your wet knot strengths – I’ll go and catch some fish

 

Wish I’d never posted now

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

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Originally posted by Julian:

 

LOL – Fishing is not all about ‘substantiating data’ you know!

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... agreed, but making pronouncements is, if they are to have any credibility.

 

Why not buy a line which, in the first place meets the manufacturer's claims (BS, diameter etc) e.g. 12 lb BS, and then why knot use a knot which when wet (try fishing any other way) gives a breaking strength of 90+ % of the original dry unknotted BS? Otherwise why bother buying line based on BS or diameter or anything?

 

Paying attention to detail and facts enables one to achieve maximum wet knot strength and thus lose fewer fish or hook-end tackle and thus achieve better fish & environment welfare.

 

Otherwise it's like your buying a car and your finding that it doesn't do what you paid-for, and then the garage says "Bog off and go driving; don't worry about the fact that we can't substantiate our claims or back-up our guarantee"

 

Back to lines though, to finally illustrate again my point, in front of me I have some pukka test data (not amateurish in-the-garden-shed stuff) for 8 leader lines, all the of the same BS of course, and very similar diameter, so that the tenacity comparisons are fair.

 

Just one set of data show that using the same knot, the knotless-knot for hooklength to hook eye tying, the wet knot strength varies from 90+ down to 66 %. So, armed with that info, it's much easier to select a line, on that parameter.

 

Fortunately, in the other tests, the same Top 3 lines perform in the Top 5 for tensile strength, abrasion resistance & shock-load strength.

 

Easy-peasy to choose the best .. which is what I personally like, and don't like to be conned and ripped-off by false claims.

 

And finally.... I quote directly from the report ... ... anglers often end-up depending upon the advice and recommendations from sports shops, guides, sponsored anglers and fishing partners. Unfortunately, most of them don't know either and base their advice on experience and/or hearsay, which, although helpful, probably won't produce the most desirable choice.

 

I've posted netfulls of very costly pukka (but totally free to AN readers) line test data , which I had assumed many found helpful, sadly and obviously not so in your case.

 

DG

 

P.S. Do your gratuitous and rather disingenuous comments apply solely to me, or do they also include Dave Barham who, on Elton's main website, has written what I regard as two of the most authoritative articles about mono and braids? :confused: .... obviously he too, by your implication, spends more time testing lines than fishing ... which of course is total cobblers ... it's easy-peasy for multi-tasking grown-ups to do both

 

[ 09. June 2004, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[Julian]

Note the use of ' ' in my post.

 

Nuff said.

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

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Originally posted by malevans:

 

... I use normal nylon for the main-line, and braid or Maxima Clear for the hook-lengths.

 

However I never fish with anything other than tapered co-polymer for fly fishing, point strength anything from 2 lb for small trout to 16.5 lb for salmon.

 

I have total faith in the leaders and have not been let down yet.

 

I use fluorocarbon for saltwater/pike fly leader but have never hook anything large enough to really test them, although smash takes from high single figure pike have tested them to a degree. I use Riverge Grand Max plus a wire trace for pike.

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Hi, Malevans!

 

Many thanks for that very interesting and comprehensive input, especially the use of Riverge Grand Max when you're piking - you certainly fish a whole range of techniques and species.

 

As far as nylon, co-polymer and fluorocarbon leaders go, have you tried and, if so, how do you rate .... RIO, Umpqua and/or Climax, ... compared with your Riverge?

__________

 

When you're using Riverge for your piking, together with a wire trace of course ), are you using it as a shock-absorbing leader?

 

Can you also tell me/us, please, which brand of nylon mainline(s) you use, and which hooklength braid ... oh, and your favourite knots!

 

__________

 

Sorry about the surfeit of questions

 

Many Thanks in anticipation

 

DG

 

[ 09. June 2004, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[Cranfield]

I have been bringing a "fluorocarbon coated, copolymer line" back from the US for the last few years and am very impressed with it.

The Manufacturer is P-Line and the product is "P-Line Floroclear".

It is virtually invisible in the water, has good knot strength when using the usual knots and casts nicely.

This year I have brought back their "X-tra Strong" version to try.

 

I have also been trying Sufix DNA (soon to be renamed "Sufix ProMix").

This has excellent knot strngth, good abrasion resistance, with a very low memory and is superb for casting light lures.

It is a "copolymer nylon formula".

 

Of course, these products retail for around £3.50 for 400 yard spools, in the US.

 

I also bought two Shimano Stradics 2500FH,s, cost me £61.25 each, criminal, ain,t it ?