BARBED HOOKS!!!!!!!!

[Peter Waller]

Hi Lee. I'm aware of Barry's opinion on this matter, having read the book and had a natter with him about it.

 

I'm not so sure that it was actually a scientifically proven theory though. Rather that scientifically trained minds had considered all the pros and cons. Said scientific bods then came to an educated conclusion, a conclusion that holds a considerable amount of water though.

 

Largely I believe his theory stemmed from the point that I have already raised, that of the hook-hold being transfered from one treble to another during playing. I think he is quite right, especially where lures are concerned.

 

On balance I believe that his worries are well founded. But I believe that the ease by which a pike is removed from hooks with squeezed barbs, rather than conventional barbs, far outweighs the disadvantages as outlined by Barry.

 

I also think it worth considering the reel in this debate. The pressure exerted by a multiplier is far more constant than that from a fixed spool where pumping is used to bring the pike in. That momentary relaxation of pressure when the slack is taken up during pumping is the point, I believe, when a pike is most likely to transfer from one hook-hold to another.

 

I have a bucket in my boat, into which goes tackle either retrieved or lost traces removed from pike. Its getting quite full this year. I don't weigh many of my fish but I would guess that one I had this morning was around the 15 to 16 pound mark. As a matter of course, during the winter, I look inside their mouths. I'd far rather roll the trebles out and have let her go at the boat side but it pays to check nowadays. Two sets of barbed deadbait rigs in this particular fish, have had fish with more, as have friends of mine. Had they been barbless then perhaps she would have thrown them.

 

Barry's theory is sound, but he hasn't convinced me one way or the other.

 

Obviously the hook-hold transfer syndrome can hardly apply to single hook rigs.

 

[ 23. February 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[H Jampton]

You can learn a lot from this and other threads:

 

Fish suffer stress but they don't experience fear.

 

Fish get damaged but they don't bleed.

 

Fish get hurt but do not suffer pain.

 

Ban THEM, but don't ban ME!

 

All interesting stuff!!

 

[ 23. February 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: H Jampton ]

[Peter Waller]

H Jampton:

H.J. You can learn a lot from this and other threads:

P.W. Quite true, I've learned a great deal !

 

H.J. Fish suffer stress but they don't experience fear.

P.W. Not fear as you and I know it but an instinctive wariness, part of their survival instinct I suppose.

 

H.J. Fish get damaged but they don't bleed.

P.W. They can and do bleed! Catch a pike in its rakers and it can bleed a great deal. But I have yet to see evidence of hook penetration causing blood loss.

 

 

H.J. Fish get hurt but do not suffer pain.

P.W. Damaged yes. Hurt? Not so sure, a debatable statement :confused: !

 

H.J. Ban THEM, but don't ban ME!

P.W. That dreaded word again! Don't you think, H.J., that we need to keep an open mind on the option to ban? If we are honest, whether we agree with them or not, most bans are brought in with all the best of intentions. Still, we could always ban bans .

 

 

H.J. All interesting stuff!!

P.W. Often irrelevant, tiresome or irritating, but always interesting!

[monkeyboy]

Well i dont really specialise in a certain species.

Usually Tench,Carp,Bream,Rudd etc,and match fishing.

However I have seen damage when I have watched an angler fishing with barbed hooks. He took the hook out from just aboe the top lip and there was a definate wound about 3mm long.

I do also believe that the competance of some anglers has a very large part in this too.

[craig mason]

if you look on the askari website there hooks are mostly barbed hooks there a very few barbless hooks on there witch is a problem for me as i am having problems finding some barbless trout hooks as the lake were i go runs a ban an barbed hooks

[Rob Ward]

If you read back through the thread, monkeyboy, you'll see that Steve Burke, Gaffer and I all acknowledge the advantages of Barbless hooks in smaller sizes for match style fishing.

 

Having used both Barbless and Microbarbed hooks for specimen Carp fishing I have to say that in my personal experience Barbless hooks have caused mouth damage to Carp to the point where I will not use them anymore. I will now only use Barbless hooks for Pike Fishing.

[Steve Burke]

I meant to add this a while ago but couldn't find the reference to a scientific paper comparing barbed and barbless hooks that I mentioned when this topic was discussed a year or two back. However last night I was reading a US pike book that referred to this and other similar papers on deeply-hooked fish.

 

"A Manitoba and Missouri study conducted in 1977 showed mortality on artificials with barbed trebles varying from 1.7 to 5.3 per cent, and mortality on barbless (lure hooks) to be 10.5 per cent, perhaps because the barbless hook found a deeper set". The quote is from page 140 of Northern Pike by Will Ryan.

 

In other words barbless hooks killed 2 to 7 times more fish than barbed ones! This and other similar studies confirm my own non-scientific results over many years. Whether barbless hooks penetrate more deeply or move around more I therefore feel is irrelevant. What is important is the results, and these show a tremendous difference in favour of barbed hooks.

 

Having said that I appreciate that mortality will vary between species, with those having vital organs near the throat such as pike, and to an even greater extent perch, being most at risk.

 

That is why at Wingham (where piking isn't allowed)I ban barbless hooks only on the lake that contains perch, and then only in size 8 and above.

[Rob Ward]

Interesting, Steve.

 

I use Barbless for Pike Fishing purely because it makes for easy unhooking.

 

I can't say I've had any problems with Barbless hooks when Piking, has anyone else?

[Steve Burke]

Rob, I think I'm right in saying that Barrie Rickards mentioned about the mortality problem with barbed hooks. Whether it was in one of his books/articles or during a private chat I'm afraid I can't remember.

 

Having said that I suspect that the size of the hook has a bearing, with large hooks being the main culprits. When bait fishing for pike I therefore use small semi-barbless hooks (i.e. a barb on only one hook). As you say unhooking is much easier, and also quicker.

 

When lure fishing I prefer barbed trebles as deep-hooking is rarely a problem then, and I've lost too many pike on barbless lures, surface ones in particular. Perhaps it's easier for the fish to lever themselves off the hook on lures? However, I do replace the trebles on a lot of my lures with finer wire ones with smaller barbs.

[Rob Ward]

It sounds like we use the same Trebles!

 

I use size 8's for most of my bait fishing but will step up to 6's on a Trout Water.

 

I dont use Barbless on my lures either, I've only started lure fishing seriously over the last couple of seasons and have just started to build up a collection. Which hooks do you use on your lures?

 

Valid point regarding losing Pike on lures with Barbless hooks. I imagine it would be pretty easy for a Pike to use the weight of the lure to shake it out.

 

[ 07. March 2003, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Rob Ward ]