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bream spod mix

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I think what annoys Gozzer (and others) is when a nice traditional mixed fishery has so many small carp put into it in order to make for easy fishing that they just squeeze everything else out. This is not a practice which comes from specimen carp fishing, it comes originally from match fishing. The purpose made waters tend to be arranged to be uniform canal-like arrangement and are filled with lots of little carp, to give a level playing field. To try to add some variety, they will often stock exotics like ide and even river species like barbel. This easy catching became so popular that the same stocking policy was applied to natural waters, ruining them for anyone who doesn't want fake fishing. You can't avoid the carp to target other species, and their constant grubbing in the silt turns the water muddy, killing off submerged vegetation.

 

 

Thank you Steve.

I've been trying, (and obviously failing), to say exactly that. But I can easily get side tracked onto other issues, and lose sight of the original point, and then start to 'ramble' a bit. :D

This has only happened over the last 20 to 30yrs, so I understand if those who started fishing fairly recently, would think that it is normal or natural.

I've found that tench (if you can find them) do seem to thrive in these conditions. I think it's because they can survive as well as, (if not better) than some carp, in the low DO levels usually found there.

I keep hearing about large specimens of other fish being caught on these waters, but I think that apart from the preds, these are mostly old fish and near the end of their life. Only time will tell if I'm right.

 

The idea that these would make ideal match waters, and make it equal for all was soon seen to be false. I suppose they mistakenly thought the fish would spread evenly across the water, but they too become 'peggy'. The answer for some was to add even more fish!

 

I'm sad to hear of the water John describes, it proves it's still going on, and our rivers are still getting the same treatment.

 

I will repeat it (again :D ). I have nothing against those who wish to fish for carp, (I'll still take the micky though B)). It's the massive, artificial spread of them, (both in number and area), over a relatively short period, and the effect on angling, the environment, and ecology of the waters that that are affected.

 

John.

 

Agree with you both, so it's the match anglers fault :angry::D

 

I do struggle to understand why they are so popular for those who want to catch "standard native" species but devilishly good fun for a spot of Goldfish or Orfe fishing.


Stephen

 

Species Caught 2014

Zander, Pike, Bream, Roach, Tench, Perch, Rudd, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Eel, Grayling, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout

Species Caught 2013

Pike, Zander, Bream, Roach, Eel, Tench, Rudd, Perch, Common Carp, Koi Carp, Brown Goldfish, Grayling, Brown Trout, Chub, Roosterfish, Dorado, Black Grouper, Barracuda, Mangrove Snapper, Mutton Snapper, Jack Crevalle, Tarpon, Red Snapper

Species Caught 2012
Zander, Pike, Perch, Chub, Ruff, Gudgeon, Dace, Minnow, Wels Catfish, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Roach, Bream, Eel, Rudd, Tench, Arapaima, Mekong Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Marbled Tiger Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Thai Redtail Catfish, Batrachian Walking Catfish, Siamese Carp, Rohu, Julliens Golden Prize Carp, Giant Gourami, Java Barb, Red Tailed Tin Foil Barb, Nile Tilapia, Black Pacu, Red Bellied Pacu, Alligator Gar
Species Caught 2011
Zander, Tench, Bream, Chub, Barbel, Roach, Rudd, Grayling, Brown Trout, Salmon Parr, Minnow, Pike, Eel, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Koi Carp, Crucian Carp, F1 Carp, Blue Orfe, Ide, Goldfish, Brown Goldfish, Comet Goldfish, Golden Tench, Golden Rudd, Perch, Gudgeon, Ruff, Bleak, Dace, Sergeant Major, French Grunt, Yellow Tail Snapper, Tom Tate Grunt, Clown Wrasse, Slippery Dick Wrasse, Doctor Fish, Graysby, Dusky Squirrel Fish, Longspine Squirrel Fish, Stripped Croaker, Leather Jack, Emerald Parrot Fish, Red Tail Parrot Fish, White Grunt, Bone Fish
Species Caught 2010
Zander, Pike, Perch, Eel, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Mirror Carp, Common Carp, Crucian Carp, Siamese Carp, Asian Redtail Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Rohu, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Pacu, Long Tom, Moon Wrasse, Sergeant Major, Green Damsel, Tomtate Grunt, Sea Chub, Yellowtail Surgeon, Black Damsel, Blue Dot Grouper, Checkered Sea Perch, Java Rabbitfish, One Spot Snapper, Snubnose Rudderfish
Species Caught 2009
Barramundi, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Wallago Leeri Catfish, Wallago Attu Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Mrigul, Siamese Carp, Java Barb, Tarpon, Wahoo, Barracuda, Skipjack Tuna, Bonito, Yellow Eye Rockfish, Red Snapper, Mangrove Snapper, Black Fin Snapper, Dog Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Marble Grouper, Black Fin Tuna, Spanish Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Redhind Grouper, Saddle Grouper, Schoolmaster, Coral Trout, Bar Jack, Pike, Zander, Perch, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Common Carp, Golden Tench, Wels Catfish
Species Caught 2008
Dorado, Wahoo, Barracuda, Bonito, Black Fin Tuna, Long Tom, Sergeant Major, Red Snapper, Black Damsel, Queen Trigga Fish, Red Grouper, Redhind Grouper, Rainbow Wrasse, Grey Trigger Fish, Ehrenbergs Snapper, Malabar Grouper, Lunar Fusiler, Two Tone Wrasse, Starry Dragonet, Convict Surgeonfish, Moonbeam Dwarf Angelfish,Bridled Monocle Bream, Redlined Triggerfish, Cero Mackeral, Rainbow Runner
Species Caught 2007
Arapaima, Alligator Gar, Mekong Catfish, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Pacu, Siamese Carp, Barracuda, Black Fin Tuna, Queen Trigger Fish, Red Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Honeycomb Grouper, Red Grouper, Schoolmaster, Cubera Snapper, Black Grouper, Albacore, Ballyhoo, Coney, Yellowfin Goatfish, Lattice Spinecheek

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All,

 

gozzer,

 

[You]"side tracked onto other issues"? Ha ha! Since I don't have a clue what the topic is all about "bream spod mix" I'm afraid I'm the one who exited stage left on it.

 

It does not hurt my feelings to be reminded of that fact from time to time.

 

Phone

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From what I'm reading from you then, it's not the species, it's their location. You use "invasive" for theatrical purposes. Am I right?

You're getting there...slowly...

 

Carp in themselves are not the probem, As has been pointed out by a few, the money machine that is the "carp circus" is the problem and the resulting damage caused by it.

 

"invasive" "alien" "non-native" all accurate descriptions of carp, but used to reinforce my feelings when noddies start wanting to destroy our native ecology even more.


Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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Thanks for that link Steve

 

What a wonderfull days fishing must go there sometime. :D:thumbdown::thumbdown:

 

At the risk of upsetting Rudd again these are the sought of matchmen that are ruining our sport. My local club does not hold river matches now choosing to go to these venues.

 

Any serious carp, specimen, pleasure or proper match anglers despise this sort of fishery.

 

Tincatinca helped me with some great local knowledge of gipping angling club waters recently and said one great tench water has now been ruined by carp introduction and how right he was. You can catch carp in any weather and any conditions its pot luck if you can escape them long enough to catch a tench or bream.

 

The club even had the cheek to write to its members recently asking for donations above yearly subs to pay for more carp in a venue next to the river that floods into it.

 

regards

 

John

Not upsetting me mate - yes I fish matches but only my local club ones on waters that I would describe as managed mixed fisheries IE they have been stocked with a variety of species over the years in sensible numbers well within EA guidelines.

Carp have been stocked but not in very high numbers at all and the last 15 were all well into double figures.

Carp seem to be the only species that have never produced fry in these waters and being a coarse angling club with a good few carp anglers as well as pleasure anglers who like to catch the occassional specimen the committee found this only fair.

Strangly enough the match anglers of the club moan about the carp - ALOT - Oh the politics of an angling club. :rolleyes:

 

I would disagree in a friendly manner about your comment the pleasure anglers despise these fisheries (commercials).

Pleasure anglers flock to these types of waters because they suit the modern must have it now/throwaway society we live in.

These types of anglers just want to go to a fishery, park their car as close as possible, set up on a nice comfy peg, cast out (not to far mind) and catch a fish within a few minutes.

Most are not interested in water craft etc - just catching a big haul of big hard fighting fish on easy dont have to put much though into it methods such as the method (itself!), bagging waggler or even the zig rig with sloppy spod mix cast over the top every few minutes on so called runs waters.

 

The way I see it is that it is up to them what they put in and take out of the sport of angling as they are injecting alot of money into the sport of angling (keeping local tackle shops afloat in very hard times) and boosting angler numbers much the same as sea or game anglers.


RUDD

 

Different floats for different folks!

 

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The way I see it is that it is up to them what they put in and take out of the sport of angling as they are injecting alot of money into the sport of angling (keeping local tackle shops afloat in very hard times) and boosting angler numbers much the same as sea or game anglers.

 

 

Absolutely, on those merrits alone commercials are a good thing. Also it must help to take the pressure off natural waters. The rivers round me have been taking an absolute batterring recently and it shows when you catch a fish. Some of the barbel, chub and even roach I've been catching in the river recently have terrible mouth damage due to the numpties angling practice used and the sheer ammount of times they're being caught.

It really bugs me when I hear people moaning about the lack of anglers on the riverbank...are they insane or what ? If they're lucky enough to have a river / rivers nearby all to themselves why moan, they should be extatic (but quietly).

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Absolutely, on those merrits alone commercials are a good thing. Also it must help to take the pressure off natural waters. The rivers round me have been taking an absolute batterring recently and it shows when you catch a fish. Some of the barbel, chub and even roach I've been catching in the river recently have terrible mouth damage due to the numpties angling practice used and the sheer ammount of times they're being caught.

It really bugs me when I hear people moaning about the lack of anglers on the riverbank...are they insane or what ? If they're lucky enough to have a river / rivers nearby all to themselves why moan, they should be extatic (but quietly).

 

Oh - I have rivers near me - the same ones as Elton and John Weddup but most of the time they are not worth fishing as they have taken such a battering over the years I do not think they will ever recover.

 

The Gaps water John hints up further up the post (also fished at by Elton not it the too far past) was an absolute gem of a water for early season tench fishing until the club saw fit to over stock it with carp alot of which now live (or did until taken for the pot along with every other species present in the river including ducks and other wildfowl) in the adjoining river.


RUDD

 

Different floats for different folks!

 

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Thank God for Commercials :D , keeps the rivers almost empty. :o

 

If anglers wish to fish commercials then so be it, their cash and their choice. Leave them be, then the river anglers will be happy.

Matchmen, no comment :o


"La conclusión es que los insultos sólo perjudican cuando vienen de alguien que respeto". e5006689.gif

“Vescere bracis meis”

 

 

 

 

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Thank God for Commercials :D , keeps the rivers almost empty. :o

 

If anglers wish to fish commercials then so be it, their cash and their choice. Leave them be, then the river anglers will be happy.

Matchmen, no comment :o

 

No offence intended Andy but you seem to be missing part of the problem.

It's not just the existence of these 'catching pools' that is the problem. It's the habit of building them in areas likely to flood, and then 'stocking' the rivers every time we have a 'once in a 100 year flood', (which we have have a few of in recent years). Many smaller species are struggling in some of our rivers, and the influx of a more dominant/hardy species is going to make that problem even worse. There is also the perceived problem of predators, they will flourish in these 'over stocked larders'. Then some will move on to the nearby rivers, and cause problems for a while until their numbers dwindle, but they will then be replaced by the next lot that move on.

 

It seems that most people see a use for these waters, (that I fail to see), but if we must have them, then please make sure that they are away from flood plains, and securely protected. At least we can then minimise their effect on the environment.

 

John.


Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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In the fish starved North East mate we dont have that problem.

As for "invasive species " the EA should be shorting that out surely, or am i being a tad niave ?

One club i was a member of had a " pool" right next to the river, the once in a lifetime flood came and filled the pool with eels,! not one carp escaped mate. If a person wants to dig and stock a pool/lake near a river, then are the EA not involved to advise about flooding etc?

 

I'm all for a person making cash from angling, and all for each and every angler to have their choice of angling, be it coarse . carp, sea, game or whatever. Maybe a band of " non aggresive " anglers who can get on without bickering ( nigh on impossible ) anglers should band together in every region to have their voice heard, a complete seperate entity from the EA and other angling bodies. IMHO theangling bodies tend to act for the anglers in the second instance and the businesses first. Venue owners etc.


"La conclusión es que los insultos sólo perjudican cuando vienen de alguien que respeto". e5006689.gif

“Vescere bracis meis”

 

 

 

 

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I don't know which part of the North East your from Andy, but you can't be that far from me. The Yorkshire Rivers nearly all contain carp now, and some catfish. A situation that's only happened fairly recently, so they must be escapees from these waters. You only have to look at the number of 'new fisheries' that have been created in E Yorkshire, (very flat area, prone to flooding), and the surrounding drains that lead to the R Hull etc. It's only a short swim to the Humber, then the Trent and Yorks Ouse, and their tributaries. Then you've those at the side of the Ouse itself, and the Aire, in particular.

 

As for anglers uniting, sorry but I don't think that it will ever happen. I've seen too many so called representative bodies come and go, each had it's separate agenda, and sadly I don't see the Angling Trust being any different.

 

We agree on the influence of commercial influences on angling, and I believe that it is a major part of the problem.

 

John.

Edited by gozzer

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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