Just so all you hooligans know......

[Tigger]

We, British, occupiers of these islands have always been multicultural it's the single most defining variable we have.

 

As far as i'm aware the last cultural invasion was in 1066 and then they (the powers that be and the church) ensured that it wouldn't happen again (no more invading people bringing cultural changes). That is until the last few decades.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Tigger

[Emma two]

As far as i'm aware the last cultural invasion was in 1066 and then they (the powers that be and the church) ensured that it wouldn't happen again (no more invading people bringing cultural changes). That is until the last few decades.

 

1066 was of course a significant date in our history, the Norman conquest changed the political, social and cultural face of these lands immensely, however to imagine that there have been no more contributions towards multiculturalism is patently wrong, and perhaps reveals anther characteristic, that we are generally rubbish at knowing about our own history.

The 1066 bit should have been just one part of the history taught in our schools, or perhaps there was too much staring out of the classroom window thinkin’ about fishin’? that was the case for me too, but I went on years later to get first class honours in European history (Northumbria)... so no apologies for a little transfer from my own notes on the subject to here...

 

JEWS 1066-1290, from 1656, and particularly 1881-1914 and 1933-39

The first definite settlement occurred shortly after 1066.

LOMBARDS and HANSA 1250-1598

These were small numbers of merchants from Lombardy in Italy, and from the Hanseatic League, a trading association of German and Baltic towns. Based in London, Lombards gradually replaced Jews as the country's financiers.

 

WEAVERS FROM THE LOW COUNTIES 1337-1550

The Flemish and Walloons came from "The Low Counties" which are now Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg and parts of northern France and Germany. They came to East Anglia in the 13th and 14th century

GYPSIES from 1500

Gypsies began to arrive in small numbers around this time. Elizabeth I tried to expel them with her 1562 Egyptian Act

HUGUENOTS 1560-1720

Protestants from France began coming in earnest around 1685, and increasingly after 1688. An estimated 80,000 landed in England and Ireland.

PALATINES 1693-1709

Palatines from the German Palitinate were largely unskilled and destitute. They are associated with settlements in the north west of England.

AFRICANS 1555-1833 and onwards, Africans arrived in small numbers due to Britain's involvement in the slave trade.

towards the end of the 18th century, at the height of the slave trade, there was, relatively speaking, a large black population estimated in England and Wales of 9,000,000..

INDIANS AND CHINESE 1700 and onwards

Most of the early Chinese arrived as seamen, after the treaties of Nanking in 1842 and Peking in 1860 opened up China to British trade. However, their population in Britain remained very small. In 1871 it was recorded as 207, and as 1,319 in 1911.41 The 1991 Census put the number of Chinese in Britain at 156,938.

EUROPEANS including GERMANS AND ITALIANS

Throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, there was a steady trickle of people from all over Europe. In England and Wales, the 1871 census recorded 32,823 Germans out of an overall European-born population of 89,829.

BELGIANS 1914-1918

Some 19,000 wounded Belgian soldiers arrived during the war. In addition, 240,000 Belgian refugees were scattered throughout Britain by 1919.

POLES

In the 1931 census there were 44,462 people claiming Poland as their birthplace.

POWs during WW2, and POST-WAR LABOUR RECRUITMENT

Some 15,700 Germans and 1,000 Italians remained after the war. work-permit schemes recruited Germans, Italians, Ukrainians, Austrians and Poles, the total number of aliens recruited under the Attlee government [July 1945-October 1951was an estimated 345,000 …

This does not include the internal migration of peoples within’ the British isles

[chesters1]

but they are still segregating themselves ,we on one hand are forced to except them to our bosom while the majority of them push it away ,if there was true integration you couldnt spot a foreigner if you tried

you forgot the jews being ousted for 400 years

Edited September 27, 2011 by chesters1

[watatoad]

What fool we all are simply let them work with the members of Parliament as assistants or researchers or home helps or for each and all of the various political parties I'll start with the Labour party as I feel they caused this mess the country is in along with their buddies. Lets see them cleaning up the problems they caused.

[Dick Dastardly]

but they are still segregating themselves ,we on one hand are forced to except them to our bosom while the majority of them push it away ,if there was true integration you couldnt spot a foreigner if you tried

you forgot the jews being ousted for 400 years

 

 

And to my mind this is the whole problem.

 

Our society and more importantly LAW allows cultures to segregate them selves from BRITISH culture. When you move to another country to live then one (if not THE) reason in doing so is to become that nationality and adopt/practice their culture. NOT as our country allows just to USE its culture and indeed in some cases spread THEIR culture among us.This is the route of all problems.

 

Maybe we allow it (although we constantly moan about it) because when we go abroad we do the same!! Look at the "Brit Ghettos"! in Spain,entire private apartment blocks full of non Spanish speaking,fish and chip,baked bean eating Brits who have their own shops,clubs and pubs! No different at all (and IMO just as wrong) as the various cultural enclaves in the UK.

 

We have certainly helped cause it by our "Not in my back yard" attitude to foreign people.

 

Hows anyone going to truly "integrate" if they live,work and socialise among people of their own culture? As I initially said the one motivation for moving to another country should be the wish to adopt that countries culture.

 

The problem has been compounded by our own "do gooders" demanding that immigrants should be allowed to practice their own religious beliefs/cultures/politics etc! Yes all are a personal choice but surely logic decrees that its best to practice such things in a country,with other people, that have the same? Certainly removes one area of confrontation!

 

Again our country seems quite unique in allowing this. I'm not allowed to drink alcohol in the streets of Saudi Arabia just because I'm a British Christian am I? and wouldn't dream of asking for special dispensation to do so (just an example) When in Rome etc etc.

 

Deviation from the normal causes problems and when allowed causes resentment when demanded as a "Human Right" though this then causes "hate". To simplify things its just like if we were to allow foreigners to drive on the right over here while we all stuck to the left!

 

I think a lot of our resentment to immigrants is caused by the people who allow them to "not integrate" as Chesters says if integration did allways happen we would simply not have any "foreigners" regardless of skin colour,ethnic background etc.

 

I just want to live with/among like minded people regardless of original ethnic background.Even to the extent that I would rather get rid of any unlike minded people (as in this case the rioting,scrounging,"lost generations") be they born British or not!

[Dick Dastardly]

All though a friend of mine who is of a similar age but from a Jamaican back ground once said when I mentioned integration-

 

" I was brought up with the ethic of my Jamaican born parents and grand parents who came here to work hard and get a better life. I wouldn't have dared not work or not "integrate", to be BRITISH was the goal.Trouble is that modern black kids have truly integrated and share the values and aspirations of their white contemporaries...................and just want to smoke drugs while playing the Play Station and drawing dole! they have truly become BRITISH!"

 

Sad but I reckon the guy is kind of right! Not a criticism of modern black kids but more of a criticism of modern youth in general.

 

The youth we have either created or allowed to be created.

[Dick Dastardly]

Joined with nothing and came out with nothing, except that most of my peers had good jobs could drive, and a few quid in the bank.

 

 

But it did make me appreciate the other bloke,

 

I suppose you and I were lucky to a point , those poor black kids in the Cities haven't a clue beyond their stinking thieving drug taking, game playing, cell 'phone, bling, pathetic lives and are as distant from my youth as anything could be.

 

Poor sods.

 

My Army career started as an "escape" really if I'm honest.It was an easy way out after not bothering my arse to get the qualifications I needed for my intended career (Architect) I would never say I came out with nothing though.It certainly formed the person I am to day and my views on life/the world etc. It taught me an awful lot.

 

You are right though we were lucky in that we had the option to join up. I say option as in our day it was relatively easy to join up and also our peers wouldn't have pressured us not to.It was an "accepted" thing amongst all of society.Also there was no imminent "danger" as such,well certainly not like today.

 

I cant imagine modern day kids (regardless of colour) not getting a load of flack if they decided on doing something so "un cool" as joining up. And I certainly doubt many parents/ families wouldn't be doing everything they can to deter them!

 

I think the answer lays somewhere in "re motivating" society rather than making people do some thing but how to stop the rot that's now generations deep I don't know. It seems that the "normal" of life as we knew it is totally alien to many in today's society.

 

Dave's description of his family is a good example to use-

The various generations have grown up with Grandparents,parents and siblings that have studied hard and worked hard,They have seen the benefits of such and for them it is normal.

 

Other families have grown up with the same members never working,allways scraping a living on the dole/grabbing an easy buck here and there.This is their normal.It seems that the Play Station and puff is enough to keep them content and as long as they have these they don't feel the need for anything else.

 

Giving people money for nothing has caused this.And the fact they can spend it on non essentials/"placebo luxuries" (such as drugs and entertainment systems) has only compounded it! Why try to better yourself (or even realise you could!) when all your needs (or seemingly) are catered to any way?

[Vagabond]

I really wish I did know the answer .

 

Maybe all our immigrants/asylum seekers etc should earn their "right to be British" and all the advantages that come with that status?

 

But saying that the "foreign" element is just a part of the far bigger "British born and bred" problem. Our 2nd and 3rd generation don't want to work.............."Lost Generations" are the bigger problem and very few of those would benefit from Military service and Military certainly wouldn't benefit from the majority of them!

 

Thanks Budgie for a very well considered reply. The idea of a British Foreign Legion sounds good - although the security implications of unwittingly enlisting extremists, training them in military skills and then admitting them into the UK would need very careful screening.

 

To put things in perspective, the vast majority of National Servicemen in my day did an excellent job. After all, they had as role models the previous generation who had just fought and won WWII.

 

The only sensible attitude to conscription was "it's only two years, let's make the best of it" On a personal note, I had just got married, and was just starting a career, so could not be expected to be overjoyed at two years taken out of my control. In the event, I was extremely fortunate in my posting, getting home most weekends, and in getting promoted to NCO which meant £4 a week instead of twentysix bob! (that's £1.30 in today's money)

 

Playing sport helped. Our CO was particularly keen on it and turned out for every game, sometimes as spectator, often as referee (rugby) or umpire (cricket). Being a member of both teams meant I got time off for practice and the actual matches, and representing your unit also helped when I asked for any concessions (like keeping my motorcycle on camp). I was very conscious of how fortunate I was compared with many other National Servicemen, but there - you can only play the cards you are dealt.

 

The disaffected few did stand out like so many sore thumbs, and in those days were few enough to be dealt with without too much disruption to the Services in general (only to those who had to deal with them).

 

Got on OK with the "regulars" most of whom were a pretty tolerant lot, although one elderly corporal was a bit grumpy when I first entered the Corporals' Club. " Jumped up bloody conscripts - it took me twelve years to make corporal" he said, not realising that said far more about him than me.

 

But you are right Budgie, the present day "Lost Generations" are far more numerous and far more disaffected than they were in my day, and that was why I said the Services don't want them - and angling most certainly doesn't.

[Vagabond]

.

 

..... the army doesn't need people who have been forced to join...........You don't want some tosser who isnt interested being the one who is supposed to be watching your back.

 

 

Says it all.

[Vagabond]

POLES

In the 1931 census there were 44,462 people claiming Poland as their birthplace.

 

A good long list which shows we have been "multicultural" for a long time.

True, as Chesters says, that some groups cling together in enclaves, but the vast majority have integrated long ago

...and don't forget the people who escaped from occupied/about-to-be-occupied Europe during WWII.

 

I can provide one case history. A Pole who escaped and joined the British Army. He became a Paratrooper, and is one of the few that jumped into, and survived, the massacre at Arnhem, He ended up with a chestful of medals, some British, and one from Poland, the Polonia Restituta, for "Services to Poland."

 

He married and settled here. His son married into my family - he has the Polish work ethic - has his own business..

 

Oh, and he doesn't eat carp, prefers sea fish, so has his own boat.