A bit embarassing this but for once I'm a bit stumped...

[rarepleasures]

Ide

 

 

Chub

 

 

Roach

[Peter Sharpe]

Ide

 

 

Chub

 

 

Roach

 

Very helpful, the only problem is that you have ide and roach the wrong way round

[DavyR]

Very helpful, the only problem is that you have ide and roach the wrong way round

 

The give-away is usually the eye around the pupil (orange in roach, colourless in ide), but the eyes look the same colour in all three of those pictures!

[ColinW]

Ide have significantly smaller scales than roach and chub. Or to be more pedantic, as scale size varies with fish size, ide have more scales along the lateral line.

[jerry weijers]

The colour is not always a clou , because ide has also a colour eye look at the pic that post

 

 

gr jerry

[The Flying Tench]

but the pics make very clear why it has to be a chub and not an ide or roach - because the anal fin is convex whereas with ide and roach (and dace) it is concave. That's the test I always use at the riverbank, and I find it quick and easy.

[Peter Sharpe]

The give-away is usually the eye around the pupil (orange in roach, colourless in ide), but the eyes look the same colour in all three of those pictures!

Am I going mad here, or isn't it just screamingly, blatantly obvious that the top one's a roach and the bottom one's and ide, regardless of the eye colour?

[rarepleasures]

Very helpful, the only problem is that you have ide and roach the wrong way round

 

Possibly. I just transposed this link for brevity.

[DavyR]

Am I going mad here, or isn't it just screamingly, blatantly obvious that the top one's a roach and the bottom one's and ide, regardless of the eye colour?

 

No, you're not going mad - I was just saying that the eye is the first thing I look at when I catch a fish that I think might be a decent roach, because I've always been told that the ide has a colourless eye. But now Jerry is saying they don't - is he just referring to the picture (which is the point I was making - the eye looks the same in all three of those pictures) or HAS the ide in fact got a colourless eye?

 

I'm not disputing the original photo being of a small chub.

[Peter Sharpe]

No, you're not going mad - I was just saying that the eye is the first thing I look at when I catch a fish that I think might be a decent roach, because I've always been told that the ide has a colourless eye. But now Jerry is saying they don't - is he just referring to the picture (which is the point I was making - the eye looks the same in all three of those pictures) or HAS the ide in fact got a colourless eye?

 

I'm not disputing the original photo being of a small chub.

Sorry if my reply sounded just a little bit aggressive, but I was genuinely surprised at some of the suggestions.

 

It's the same as silver bream, which more people than not refer to as hybrids. You hear of people claiming to have caught a net of hybrids in the Trent, which is almost sertainly nonsense. I'm sure there could be one or two about, but they would be very rare. There certainly are plenty of silver bream in the Trent and they grow to quite a size (relatively speaking). I remember that Neville Fickling was thinking of trying for the record at one point, because in theory, it should be quite easy to beat.

This is a classic example, yet many of the text books suggest the finds should be far more coral in colour than this one here. I have never seen one with really coral fins but the eye is the biggest giveaway, as are the scales, which can quite easily come off in your hands, just like those of a bleak, which I believe it is closely related to.

http://moose.bluenotecafe.org/lapeche/date...05/DSC00068.JPG

 

or a really big one here: http://www.mattbrown.co.uk/photos/fishing/IMG_6797.jpg

 

Here is a huge roach/bream hybrid:

http://www.cfb.ie/Images/cow08/nickhybrid.jpg

 

I would imagine this is extremely rare; a rudd/silver bream hybrid:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...kkaBjoerkna.JPG