Otter friend or foe

[Worms]

Oh I don't know, I am sure I have converted a few , but they would never admit it

Converted to realise that you seemingly have very little knowledge about our native riverine habitat and associated wildlife?.....

 

 

This subject has been rattling on for years on this and other fora. Fortunately, an increasing number of anglers (particularly those that fish 'natural' waters such as rivers) realise the balance of nature....there is still a frighteningly large number of people such as yourself TM that come up with so much mythical cr4p that it really is amazing that you can still keep yourself alive!!...be careful that you don't fall off the edge of the Earth...

[Worms]

And what is your considered 'facts' in relation UK rivers?

 

That there are lots of everything

I fish UK rivers, two of which, the Teme and the Lugg have natural populations of otters and always have. The fishing in both rivers has improved out of sight over the past 30 years. You and others keep harping on about barbel...introduced fish to these rivers. Nobody has mentioned the increasing stocks and sizes of trout, dace, perch, roach, bream, chub, minnows and other fish, particularly in the Teme. As for the Lugg, the number of trout, grayling and salmon (particularly parr this year) has been rising number and sizewise year on year. ...Oh yes, oddly, mink numbers have declined dramatically. Kingfisher and dipper numbers have increased as have sand martin and grey wagtail.....all along with an increase in otter numbers, KNOWN to eat small fish.

 

Read the facts not the Angling Times and the purile drivel written by the likes of John Wilson!

[chesters1]

Facts you say! well almost

 

Al of the 'facts' that were put out prior to the otter repatriation was based on perceived knowledge at the time, in fact no one to-day still know the dynamics of the Otter if left unchecked.

 

The Otter now is a protected species.

 

Burying my hand in the sand you say? Surely you cannot accuse me of that , that is for others not I .

 

but we do know the dynamics of unchecked otters its good rivers with fish and otters ,how much of the millions of years they were unchecked do you need?

 

the rivers have vastly declined since ww2 where otters were in decline not since otters were protected

 

its not otters its man ,his interference and his pollution

 

lets have an imaginary pair of scales that represent rivers one way good rivers the other bad ones ,on one side theres fish predators (otters ,ospreys,herons and any other natural british predator) sitting on it for millions of years and on the other side is man for say the last 3 hundred (where river quality has declined slowly) ,all the evidence is there to see

Edited November 11, 2011 by chesters1

[chesters1]

How much does an otter weigh ,Is there much difference between male & female

Could they drag their own weight , Or more

Any evidence about this out there

 

yes most things can drag more than their own weight ,many times that in water .

but the idea an otter struggles to bank a large fish then nibbles at it is nonsense to stay alive it has to replace the calories it expended doing so and to thrive it has to eat more than that

having an otter banking multiple fish and just having a nibble is even more stupid it hasn't the reserves say a bear has to do it.

 

otters may land the odd weak diseased or post spawned salmon but they feed on small fish and eels which they consume in one go (watch an otter with an eel!) ,an otter as far as i know doesnt stockpile or hide food so it couldnt depend its dinner was there later so in millions of years i expect it would have learnt to eat a belly full as most predators do

Edited November 11, 2011 by chesters1

[Worms]

I don't read / buy Angling Time or any other Angling comic, and I have stated on here and this thread that personally I have been uneasy with the spread of Barbel in such numbers, and appreciate the more balanced rivers systems, so really don't understand your beef with me and John Wilson, the latter you condemn in what he says, which tells me an awful lot about you.

It certainly does...I think John Wilson is an idiot for constatntly calling for culls on native fish predators. You claim "in fact no one to-day still know the dynamics of the Otter if left unchecked."

 

A highly territorial animal such as the otter will reach K, or carrying capacity of the habitat, based on area and food supply. Once reached, self regulation occurs. Simple, it's called a balance of nature....the same reason our rivers aren't just full of pike or other natural predators. Otters have a low reproductive rate with slow maturity so any negative impacts on the species are rapid and consequently, population growth is slow. Usual impacts are habitat destruction, pollution and, the biggest killer....cars!

Edited November 11, 2011 by Worms

[Worms]

How much does an otter weigh ,Is there much difference between male & female

Could they drag their own weight , Or more

Any evidence about this out there

Otter weights vary depending on location but a dog otter average weight would comfortably be approximately 9kg and a bitch approximately 6kg. I suspect that a dog otter could drag a fish of its own weight out of water onto a flat bank but would see this as occasional and opportunistic as opposed to regular behaviour.

[Steve Walker]

Not as heavy as I would have guessed from the size of them, then, that's the size range of large domestic cat breeds.

[Worms]

Not as heavy as I would have guessed from the size of them, then, that's the size range of large domestic cat breeds.

I believe weights of 11kg have been recorded for dogs and location does have an effect on size. I haven't looked into it but I would suspect northern animals to be slightly larger (and perhaps those living near carp pools ).

[Phone]

Worms,

 

Same over here. River Otters range 5 - 10 kg.

 

I guess a point to be made! Northern Pacific Sea Otter (Canada and Alaska) reach 100 lbs and eat 25% of their weight daily. Thank goodness they don't eat freshwater fish.

(my numbers are guestimates, I didn't look)

 

Phone

[Vagabond]

Yes, practically every book on British Freshwater Fish says barbel roe is poisonous - wonder how true that is - any volunteers ?

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf60163a043

 

Thanks for digging out that one.

 

The article confirms roes of gar, sculpin and puffer-fish as toxic to man, along with that of barbel, all of which I had read about before, but mentions a couple new to me, roes from bass and pike. I might easily have tried either! A bit scary......

 

Guess I will stick with those I know; caviar, lumpfish caviar, taramasalata (UK brands made from cod roe, or Continental from carp roe - the only edible part of a carp IMHO ) . Those, together with roes from those gadids and flatfish that I have eaten before seem safe enough.