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Otter friend or foe

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That sounds like an angler (or poacher) with a "kill all pike" mentality, followed by an opportunist rat (four-legged variety)

The place where it happened is a backstream of the Kennet which is in a fenced area - effectively the owner's back garden. It would be unlikely that poachers etc would get in there. The owner had seen the otter a number of times about the time it happened, and certainly his examination of the fish led him to believe it was done by the otter.

 

Surely, isn't it clear that otters will take big fish from the carp fisheries they have wiped out?

 

OTOH it would be interesting to see the EA research Phone mentioned which apparently shows that otters don't usually take fish over 3lb. Phone, do you have a link?


john clarke

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The place where it happened is a backstream of the Kennet which is in a fenced area - effectively the owner's back garden. It would be unlikely that poachers etc would get in there. The owner had seen the otter a number of times about the time it happened, and certainly his examination of the fish led him to believe it was done by the otter.

 

Surely, isn't it clear that otters will take big fish from the carp fisheries they have wiped out?

 

OTOH it would be interesting to see the EA research Phone mentioned which apparently shows that otters don't usually take fish over 3lb. Phone, do you have a link?

 

 

At the end of the day what does it matter what size fish an otter will take ?

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Didn't you know, in the absence of otters, barbel are immortal, they never get old and weak and fall prey to natural predators. Even when hounded by repeat captures.

Yep it could well have been a case of nature cleaning up mans mess. Even with the reintroduction of otters, man (anglers) IMO is still the number one threat to big and record sized fish. If there needs to be a call for heads to roll, IMO it not the heads of otters that should be on the block........


 

A tiger does not lose sleep over the opinion of sheep

 

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Why do you think TM is a Troll? Why did you think Rabbit was also a Troll? Because he didn't always agree with you?

To call a member a Troll is a serious allegation and unless you can back it up I suggest you button it :angry:

But your banned, so your not a real member and therefore it doesn't count.


 

A tiger does not lose sleep over the opinion of sheep

 

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The place where it happened is a backstream of the Kennet which is in a fenced area - effectively the owner's back garden. It would be unlikely that poachers etc would get in there.

 

Unlikely, true, but not impossible.

 

The owner had seen the otter a number of times about the time it happened, and certainly his examination of the fish led him to believe it was done by the otter.

 

Does not follow that these are cause and effect

 

Bear with me for a short analogy

Many years ago I was camping on Unst (Shetland) miles from anywhere, and observed the following.

 

A ewe was in trouble the far side of a sealoch. I put my binoculars on it. It appeared to have broken a leg.

A Greater Black-backed Gull appeared, and attacked the stricken sheep. Sorry if this upsets the squeamish, but it went for the eye, and subsequently into the brain.

After a while the gull left, and a Great Skua came to take its place.

When the Skua had eaten its fill, that too left, and a Raven came down and continued the grisly feast.

 

Now I am not disputing that any of those three birds is capable of killing an injured sheep. but only one in this case actually did so. A shepherd coming upon the Great Skua, after the Gull had left, or the Raven still later, would surely have attributed the killing to the bird he saw.

 

That did teach me something about jumping to conclusions.

 

By analogy, unless one saw the actual killing of the pike, then any one of a number of hypotheses is possible. I was merely suggesting one of them.

 

Surely, isn't it clear that otters will take big fish from the carp fisheries they have wiped out?
I for one have not said they don't (although I would question the "wiped out") I have seen fair-sized salmon apparently the victim of an otter attack.

 

.... see the EA research Phone mentioned which apparently shows that otters don't usually take fish over 3lb. Phone, do you have a link?

I gave the links in a previous post, but I think I can save you the trouble. Most of the deductions

about otter diets are based on examination of the spraints - it doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone, that if an otter takes a larger fish, then it won't eat the large bones ! If the otter doesn't eat the bones, then they won't appear in the spraints ! Only the bones of small fish that the otter eats whole will turn up, and thus skew the results.

 

Before jumping to conclusions, you have to examine the methodology of the research.

 

There are lots of possible explanations for a part-eaten fish on the bank, and otter is only one of them. Irresponsible anglers, backed up by scavenging rats, are another.

 

So otters eat larger fish, but as Tigger said - does that matter? Tigger, Worms and I have all contributed posts indicating we have caught fish (and decent fish too) on streams and rivers where there are plenty of otters. The presence of otters indicates a river is a healthy one.

 

The most realistic post on this thread has come from Steve Walker, who very rightly points out that calling for a cull on otters is highly likely to rebound to anglers' detriment.

 

But that sort of risk is unlikely to stop Rabbit, Teme Man, whoever he is.

 

...and re commercials - Phone, I understand your concern over loss of stock, but surely it is up to the owners to protect their stock, (and pass on the cost of doing so to their clients) rather than expect the rest of the world (who don't owe them a living) to get rid of the otters.

Edited by Vagabond

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

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I have nothing to add to this "discussion" except to say that i have learnt more about some of the posters, and how they find it so easy to quote unproven "statitics" and ignore past photographic evidence. Either deliberate or just ill informed, or maybe making it all up?

 

Den


"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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Unlikely, true, but not impossible.

 

 

 

Does not follow that these are cause and effect

 

Bear with me for a short analogy

Many years ago I was camping on Unst (Shetland) miles from anywhere, and observed the following.

 

A ewe was in trouble the far side of a sealoch. I put my binoculars on it. It appeared to have broken a leg.

A Greater Black-backed Gull appeared, and attacked the stricken sheep. Sorry if this upsets the squeamish, but it went for the eye, and subsequently into the brain.

After a while the gull left, and a Great Skua came to take its place.

When the Skua had eaten its fill, that too left, and a Raven came down and continued the grisly feast.

 

Now I am not disputing that any of those three birds is capable of killing an injured sheep. but only one in this case actually did so. A shepherd coming upon the Great Skua, after the Gull had left, or the Raven still later, would surely have attributed the killing to the bird he saw.

 

That did teach me something about jumping to conclusions.

 

By analogy, unless one saw the actual killing of the pike, then any one of a number of hypotheses is possible. I was merely suggesting one of them.

 

I for one have not said they don't (although I would question the "wiped out") I have seen fair-sized salmon apparently the victim of an otter attack.

 

 

I gave the links in a previous post, but I think I can save you the trouble. Most of the deductions

about otter diets are based on examination of the spraints - it doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone, that if an otter takes a larger fish, then it won't eat the large bones ! If the otter doesn't eat the bones, then they won't appear in the spraints ! Only the bones of small fish that the otter eats whole will turn up, and thus skew the results.

 

Before jumping to conclusions, you have to examine the methodology of the research.

 

There are lots of possible explanations for a part-eaten fish on the bank, and otter is only one of them. Irresponsible anglers, backed up by scavenging rats, are another.

 

So otters eat larger fish, but as Tigger said - does that matter? Tigger, Worms and I have all contributed posts indicating we have caught fish (and decent fish too) on streams and rivers where there are plenty of otters. The presence of otters indicates a river is a healthy one.

 

The most realistic post on this thread has come from Steve Walker, who very rightly points out that calling for a cull on otters is highly likely to rebound to anglers' detriment.

 

But that sort of risk is unlikely to stop Rabbit, Teme Man, whoever he is.

 

...and re commercials - Phone, I understand your concern over loss of stock, but surely it is up to the owners to protect their stock, (and pass on the cost of doing so to their clients) rather than expect the rest of the world (who don't owe them a living) to get rid of the otters.

 

 

Good post Dave. I think on AN you have more experience than any of us having fished such a large variety of waters and caught so many different species across the globe. Obviously your not the kind of person who is spoon fed false info and belives it like some remedial type people who don't even go fishing do.

 

Right i'm off out now for a spot of trotting on my local small river, some of us do actually go out fishing unlike the remedial PETA troll on AN.

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nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo i thought it TM was Rabbits thick brother :D


Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

 

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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BLIMEY , What have i started , I only thought a couple of people would give their opinion

I can live side by side with otters

Many a time i have fished for hours without a bite & just when i am packing up , I spy an otter with a fish in its mouth dragging it up the far bank , I grin & think to myself ,, At least one of us is catching


150_brown_trout1.jpg RECORD RIVER CAUGHT BROWN TROUT 7LB 5OZ

http://www.spinningluresuk.com

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Vagabond,

 

They put the critters on "endandered species" (or something similar(?)). Anyway they are not "supposed" to shoot them. It's hard to "sneak" a shot in as the alpha male (and others I think(?) are wearing tracking devices. Much of the land is Federal BLM lease land. It's not a real big deal and frankly I haven't followed it to closely. WY and MT mostly.

 

I can see why you don't have population control for otters. I bet you (England) couldn't even agree on a good caliber of gun to use. At first I thought this was a "serious" type thread. Now I see, nothing will change, so everyone just "vents" a bit and eventually we'll get bact to fishing or fighting about something else.

 

Phone

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