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still water barbel - depressing news.


Guest lyn

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Guest Peter Waller

Its all a question of popularity & demand. We have the same situation with pike. There are barbel in still waters, there are pike being imported into alien pits & puddles. Barbel have become fashionable hence the proliferation of tackle labelled 'barbel'. There's the problem, plain and simple, fashionable demand. People want it easy. Please note, I don't agree with it but its a fact of life. My worry is that a 20lb barbel or 40lb pike will now have a price on its head as it will be required as an attraction in one of these blessed alien puddles.

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Guest NickInTheNorth

Lyn

 

Why is the breeding/non-breeding issue regarding barbel in stillwaters so important to you. Do you campaign against the stocking of rainbow trout into reservoirs in the UK. An alien species, and it too requires running water and gravel to breed.

 

Do you perhaps object to barbel in still waters because it makes them easily available to all anglers, regardless of whether they have the skills to tackle big barbel in a river? All the barbel I have caught from stillwaters have been in good condition, if a little slow and docile compared to their running water cousins. Some have been from stocked waters, some have been from lakes subject to river flooding.

 

Would you advocate the removal of the non-stocked stillwater barbel back to rivers?

 

Any fishery manager is going to stock with fish which he or she believes will attract anglers. They will compare costs and availability with "public" interest in the species. They will probably also consider the number of other waters stocking similar fish. I am sure that the more waters that stock with barbel the less attractive this option will seem to fishery owners.

 

I am afraid that the current obsession for record barbel in the angling comics has caused the demand for stillwater barbel.

 

It is another passing phase, how long it will last I don't know.

 

Wouldn't it be better if the campaigning was targetted at ensuring that the rivers in which barbel currently exist are kept clean, and that the various stupid drainage/navigation schemes which get aired now and again are fought. There has been an ongoing campaign in Yorkshire for many years to open the river derwent for navigation, and now there is talk of a flood prevention scheme for various areas on the river. Both of these would have a devastating effect on the river, and ruin the barbel fishing. It is already a very difficult river with a small and difficult to locate population. Surely a much better use of resources would be to ensure that rivers such as these are protected rather than worrying about a few fish in lakes.

 

Kind regards

 

Nick

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Guest DLF

Hi Nick

just picking up on your comment about Rainbow Trout, this is similar to comments about stillwater chub on another forum where there is also a thread about stillwater barbel. The simple answer is no we don't campaign for them, the reason being is that we are members of the barbel society and as such our prime concern is the barbel, it is up to others to campaign for these species if they feel that it is an issue.

 

As you rightly point out, there are a number of other issues which impact upon barbel fishing, it just happens that this topic is very dear to most of us. If there are any "surplus" barbel available why not stock them into rivers where they belong.

 

Does anyone know who grants stocking permission for these fish and where they come from?

 

Lee

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Guest STEVE POPE

There may be a positive from this situation.

I spoke to Ian at the Surrey BS meeting and while expressing dismay and Ians future as a BS member, we agreed that the stocking in to this lake should provide the basis of an experiment to monitor these fish.

It has been difficult to achieve this in the past due to the general stance of those who owned the fisheries, but excuse the pun, Ian is a different kettle of fish. He is a keen river barbel angler.

So that people do not get the wrong idea, The BS position is unequivocal, we do not agree with barbel being stocked in stillwaters. A visit to the Fishing Magic site were Stuart Bloor has only just put up an article will give you all more information.

 

I will be speaking to Ian again soon, to establish a monitoring programme in conjunction with us.

 

This isn't a cop out, without this arrangement we would certainly have taken a different stance, need I say more?

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Guest fisherking

Steve before you think it, I am not having a pop at you but it seems to me that you do not like fisheries to have barbel in their lakes but as Ian is a well respected BS member then you will not boycot his fishery but use it to study the fish.

 

It just seems a bit hypocritical to me.

 

John.

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Guest Graham E

Natural is the key word here. Some barbel/chub will transfer to lakes..naturally.

Evolution has decided that barbel are shaped for running water and have developed it as their prefered location. A NATURAL habitat.

They spawn in running water. Naturally.

 

Man has a great history of meddling. Crayfish/rabbits!

 

Then again we humans could all "survive" living in jail or our car rather than be free to roam. Selfishness and money grabbing spring to mind.

 

Hit them where it hurts.

 

By the way, I was aware of the history and pre discussion that had taken place. and repeat, Ian told me that he sees no problem with barbel being stocked into stillwaters. This before the "survey" has taken place

 

[This message has been edited by Graham E (edited 08 May 2001).]

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Guest Jonty

I was under the impression that the Environment Agency had decided (within the last few months) that they would no longer give permission for barbel to be stocked into waters which did not already contain a native population - and that this ruling was to cover all waters, rivers included.

 

Had I got the wrong end of the stick ??

 

 

Jonty

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Guest Ian Welch

Apologies folks this is going to be a long reply...

 

Firstly those that disagree with RMC stocking stillwater barbel should all be aware that I am first and foremost a river angler, virtually all of my available fishing time is spent on the rivers after chub and barbel - or helping other anglers to catch chub and barbel.

 

As far as RMC Angling are concerned: with our junior barbel school at Fishers Green, with our re-stocking of barbel into rivers (including a soon to be unveiled major project with a 'forgotten' river)and with the discounts we offer to Barbel Society members I feel we do more than most to promote river angling.

 

In addition to our own junior teach-in the RMC stretch of the Lee is used for a Barbel Society / Lee Valley Parks barbel event each year and I am delighted to be one of the tutors. One of the highlights of my season last year was when the lad I was coaching on this event landed the only barbel of the day. It was brilliant, he is now a confirmed barbel angler and I am proud to have been the person who helped to achieve this. I am not alone, lots of other barbel anglers give their time and do the same, but I feel the critics out there need to see my background.

 

Doing my job you can never please all of the people all of the time, yet that is what I have to try and do. I have to create fishing opportunities for every sector of the angling market. I would not be doing my job correctly if I were to do otherwise. I do not always like the decisions I have to take but take them I do, that is life.

 

I have to create heavily stocked carp waters and heavily stocked match fisheries. I also have to create the vast lightly stocked big fish waters and I have to maintain river fisheries too.

 

Diverse fisheries for a diverse sport yet each of us are anglers at heart and that should bind us, we should not criticise those who choose to fish for different species than us or use different methods to us.

 

I disagree with the abolition of the close season and firmly believe that we should have a mandatory 15 March to 15 June break but to do this on my fisheries would be commercial suicide, I have to run a business and cater for every need.

 

Demand has been created for stillwater chub and barbel fisheries, barbel in particular are big news these days and many anglers are not prepared to struggle on the rivers to catch them - but they still want to catch them.

 

Our research showed that the vast majority of the anglers fishing our Burghfield Match Lake wanted an alternative to carp and that alternative was chub and barbel. I would not be doing my job if I were not to cater for that demand. The barbel and chub in question were sourced from the EA's Calverton Fish Farm and were stocked with full EA approval and Section 30 consent.

 

The EA have no problem with stillwater barbel, barbel thrive in stillwater (their words) and we shall be carefully monitoring the growth and reproduction (if any) of our stillwater barbel to add to the overall scientific picture.

 

I personally would never fish for them but I have no problem with stillwater barbel provided they are stocked into a good quality water with sensible stock levels. Having spent three days at the NEC chatting to some of the finest barbel anglers in the land many of them have no problem with them either (including Lyn's hero!).

 

The arguement that barbel cannot spawn in stillwater is oft quoted as a reason for not stocking them. How do we know that is the case ? There are not enough barbel in stillwaters yet for an accurate scientific pronouncement to be made. Barbel SHOULD not spawn in stillwaters would be a fairer comment but then rainbow trout and catfish SHOULD not spawn in this country but both can and do.

 

There are currently two instances of stillwater barbel spawning being investigated, barbel may spawn in some stillwater conditions, particularly those with a good degree of water movement through them. Let's face it barbel do not spawn successfully in all rivers...Let's fight the abstractors and pollutors and flood defence engineers who destroy our rivers not those who introduce fish into a healthy environment for anglers to enjoy.

 

If people are against the introduction of fish which will not spawn in our stillwaters then what of the poor old grass carp? Native to the warm eastern rivers and no chance at all of spawning in our lakes...

 

My job is to provide fishing for all and hopefully fishing of a high quality. If I can bring someone into our sport by him or her getting their elastic stretched and bagging a stillwater barbel then the sport has gained an angler. If they then choose to go on to fish for barbel in the wild and beautiful places I have been privileged to fish for them then so much the better, I for one will be encouraging them to do just that.

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Guest NickInTheNorth

Thank you Ian, it is good to see a common sense pragmatic approach being taken to this issue. Keep up the good work. I look forward to hearing the details of the "forgotten" river project.

 

Nick

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Guest fisherking

Stocking of barbel into stillwaters is not a new thing but it is only recently since they have become "fashionable" that people have been up in arms about it.

 

Barbel have been stocked since the late seventies early eighties at this venue http://www.wiganaa.f9.co.uk/waters/worthgt.../worthngtn.htm#

 

These fish were stocked by the water authority and have thrived, and with the capture of small barbel have reproduced.

 

I personally would not fish a stillwater with the purpose of catching one but I would not let it put me off fishing there for other species.

 

John.

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