still water barbel - depressing news.

[Guest trent.barbeler]

Graham,

 

Sorry mate. Cant understand the Barbel/Fishers letters and Fox rod thing.

 

Please enlighten my dim brain.

[Guest Alan Pearce]

What a compassinate response from Lyn, good on yer girl, stick by your principles.

 

Personally I am very disapointed with the Barbel Society's response to this and very sad that Ian and RMC should have been involved. If it had been AN Other angling club stocking barbel into a still water I'm sure the BS's response would have been very different, as it has in the past. And if the BS felt that a scientific trial was needed then why was this never instigated previously?

 

I remember back about four years ago at the NASA conference at Kegworth, during a conversation between the BS and SACG about barbel in still waters, being told by Steve Pope and Fred Crouch that they had firm proof from Europe proving that barbel do not flourish in still waters. At that time we asked for copies of this to present to the EA to try and prevent further still water introductions or at least a study into this. However the BS who had gripes with the SACG over the Code of Conduct for Specialist Coarse Anglers and the 4 rod limit, where permitted, decided that they would present the case themselves.

 

I am also lead to beleive the EA more recently have clamped down on their own bred barbel being introduced into still waters.

 

Just a couple of weeks ago the Colchester Angling Preservation Society intoduced 300 barbel upto 4lbs in weight into one of their lakes to, in their words, improve the winter fishing. Apparenntly the EA would not supply these fish so they were purchased from a fish farm in Wales. (Yes one does wonder where they came from).

 

I always thought that there was more chance of hell freezing over before the BS would get involved with this rather than condem it.

 

Then what will happen if these fish are shown to thrive in the RMC match lake, surely it will open the floodgates to many more clubs introducing these truly river fish into their pools. Finnaly the thought of barbel being used as match fodder really leaves me cold, and as has already been said may lead to yet again another nail in our river's coffin.

 

A sad time indeed.

 

Alan.

 

PS sorry for the poor spelling, have to dash.

 

[This message has been edited by Alan Pearce (edited 10 May 2001).]

[Guest Paul Williams]

Lynn,

I probably missed the obvious somewhere, but if i had known the set up i would not have passed comment on this thread it is deeper than i realised.

[Guest Graham E]

Sorry Trent. In the BS Magazine - The Barbel Fisher, they have a letters page that will be sponsored by FOX with a barbel rod for the "best letter" of the month. This will be a subject in it next issue methinks.

Sorry to be obtuse.

Graham

[Guest NickInTheNorth]

My apologies, this feels as though it might be a long post.

 

Let me state at the outset that I am a passionate barbel angler, I have been fishing for them for over 30 years. In the rivers I fish that is hard fishing, especially if you want big fish. I have caught 8 double figure barbel in Yorkshire, I doubt if many anglers alive can beat that.

 

In addition I have fished the Hampshire Avon fairly extensively, and many other rivers. I have also fished match puddles at several commercial fisheries that stock barbel. I am not a member of any specialist group, I fish for anything that swims, I fish any legal method that I believe will be effective on any given day, and I enjoy my fishing.

 

To me fishing is more about the individual, and their enjoyment than anything else. I try very hard to ensure that fish welfare is at the top of my priorities whenever I fish. I have been a member of the ACA for many years, and believe that any angler that is not a member is not really worthy of the name.

 

I care passionately about the countryside and the environment, and find more pleasure in being at the waterside, with or without fishing tackle than in anything else.

 

I do however have one major problem.

 

The incredible factionalism that seems to have erupted in angling over the past 20 or so years, I do not blame any group or individual. I simply state my perception of the situation.

 

I will do anything I can to stop any fish, or other animal for that matter from being ill-treated. For any angler to tell me that they are only interested in the welfare of one species of fish is abhorrent. If it swims, I care: passionately.

 

There are far too many “fluffy bunny huggers” out there. Wendy Turner is one. She obviously does not understand the first thing about animal welfare, or the politics that goes with it. She has been told that PETA care about animals and has lent them her support. Poor girl doesn’t seem to realise that she is supporting an organisation that will take away both her livelihood and her hobby. Similarly there are far too many anglers today that do not seem to understand that by creating artificial divisions within angling we are opening ourselves to attacks from the antis.

 

Do we cause suffering to barbel by placing them in stillwaters?

 

Some people say yes, some say no. The simple fact is that fish are water dwelling creatures. Some are more suited to running water than still. This does not necessarily mean that placing them in still water is injurious to their health. I have caught barbel in rivers that have appeared to be very sickly and weak, usually after a pollution incident, or heavy silty floods. I have caught barbel from stillwaters that have appeared to be thriving and in superb condition. I do not have any scientific evidence that barbel either suffer harm from being in rivers, or in stillwaters. I for one would like to see evidence on this issue. I say well done to Ian and RMC. It is high time that this issue was given some serious consideration, if not proper scientific evaluation.

 

There is no point anthropomorphising fish. Simply saying that they “suffer” by being stocked in stillwater does not make it so. They are not rational beings, simply “dumb creatures”. They do not know they are supposed to be in running water as opposed to still. If there health suffers from being stocked into stillwater then let us stop the practice. If it is simply a moral crusade (which I believe it to be at the moment) then let’s all concentrate on what really matters.

 

Let’s all unite to fight for the right to fish, to ensure that water in the country is not over abstracted, polluted, drained etc. We have some serious challenges ahead. Let’s all keep our eye on the ball, defend what needs to be defended, challenge what needs to be challenged, and above all, enjoy our fishing, however we choose to fish.

 

Nick

 

I mean no offence to anyone in the above post, and no personal attack should be implied. I am simply stating my opinion in relation to the above thread. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the individuals involved in this debate, and value their opinions.

 

 

[This message has been edited by NickInTheNorth (edited 10 May 2001).]

[Guest poledark]

One of the best things about AN is that we can, and do, question almost everything that is said on here. Woe betide anyone who thinks that they can make any slip ups. Most are dealt with in a good humoured way,me I love a little p**s taking, I get enough from some of my mates and like to think I can take it.

 

I am certain that if we all thought that the barbel were going to suffer then without doubt we would all cry foul, but we already have "evidence" that they will not die or lose weight. OK they may lose a bit of the "special" status that some people give them but that is the only harm that they seem to suffer.

 

Rest assured that a good number of people will be returning prety regularly to this forum and will be checking on the fish's welfare and they will get the answers cos there is nowhere to hide now.

 

I really do trust that Ian and the EA will keep us informed.

 

Please Mr EA could we have a few hundred (or thousand) in the Kentish Stour, Beuilt and Tiese and any more that you can think of?

 

poledark

[Guest sevinpies7]

Assuming that RMC,as a commercial organisation,allow all year round fishing,if the stocked barbel thrive and spawn successfully in the Match Lake,will there still be a case for a close season on rivers.

As Ian Welch has a conflict of interest here,rather than being kicked out of theB/soc.he should leave the society of his own accord.

------------------

pieman

 

[This message has been edited by sevinpies7 (edited 11 May 2001).]

[Guest phil hackett]

Originally posted by lyn:

In answer to one question. If someone can prove to me, scientifically that barbel thrive/breed in still waters then I may look at the whole thing again. I know or very much doubt that that will ever happen. At present all the evidence has said they can’t because they need running water & gravel to spawn in/on. I am hoping that this study will prove just that.

 

Lyn with respect, if this is the answer to the question I pose on the first page, well I have to say you’ve fudged the question. The question I asked of you and the BS, "Is your stance against barbel being stocked in stillwater based on a moral or scientific stance?"

 

In the above statement you say, “At present all the evidence has said they can’t because they need running water & gravel to spawn in/on.” What is this evidence, who carried it out, what scientific validation/peer review was done on it, which journals did it appear in and when?

 

Lyn I’m not being pedantic for pedantic’s sake, these question have to be answered when/if evidence is presented to the EA to support the above claim. Remember that the EA officials are scientists first and Anglers second. Therefore they need Scientific PROOF that has been replicated many times over.

 

Frankly speaking, to base you evidence as your last sentence suggests would be torn to pieces in the first 5 minutes by these guys on the lack of data and replication.

 

So I ask again of you and the BS the question I asked above "Is your stance against barbel being stocked in stillwater based on a moral or scientific stance?"

[Guest Ian Welch]

Originally posted by NickInTheNorth:

Let’s all unite to fight for the right to fish, to ensure that water in the country is not over abstracted, polluted, drained etc. We have some serious challenges ahead. Let’s all keep our eye on the ball, defend what needs to be defended, challenge what needs to be challenged, and above all, enjoy our fishing, however we choose to fish.

 

 

Amen to that.

[Guest DerwentBob]

All I can say is that from occasional scanning of the angling press over the past 25 years or so Barbel has been set up as the new Carp with article after article on baits, tactics, tackle and methods. Such an approach has led to the downfall of the wild Carp which has gone from a venerated adversary to a commodity measured by the pound (kilo, just in case Brussels is listening!). It is the commercialisation of a single species such as the Barbel that should be opposed not the occasional stocking into a stillwater. If some anglers put as much effort into promoting angling in general as they do in waging a "my species is best" p***ing contest then we wouldn't have to fear Windy Turnip and her ilk again.

 

I'm sorry if this comes across as a rather hostile posting but I am saddened by the direction angling has taken in the past few years. Back in the seventies and eighties you met a few specialists but the majority were all-rounders and conflicts on waters rarely arose. Now when I go fishing it seems that I have to be fishing for a single species only or I am derided by those who choose to pursue Carp, Tench or Roach (on my particular water). I have even been approached by someone who says that I am not a real angler, apparently a real angler doesn't use general coarse fishing tackle, he has the name of his species plastered over everything he uses from the 13' Gudgeon special float rod to size 24 Bullhead hooks.

 

By all means fish for Barbel and certainly protect its riverine habitats but please don't glamourise the single-minded specialist approach or I believe that mass stillwater stocking will be inevitable.