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North Western Multi Range 2.25lb T/C Blank


Rob Ward

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Sorry Ive just joined in here Rod et al! Despite having used a lot of North Western blanks in the past I hadn't used the one in question so hadn't really bothered taking part! In fact only reason I did was I wanted to read Anderoos "Tackle selection" thread and seeing it kind of lead on from this one thought I best check it out first.

 

Phone made a very good point "hung up on test curve"! I think he was right as it took over 30 posts before anyone mentioned "action"! For casting this IMO as a caster and rod builder is the far more important factor. Up until the mid 90's it was relatively easy to find identical TC rods in different tapers from slow to fast,After that it seems most tapers became very similar and TC increase massively and rods started to be claimed as "multi range" Quite how any rod that can handle a big fish on a short line can then be expected to cast long range (or vice versa) I will never know!

 

If we had a Tardis Rob I would suggest we went back to the mid 90's and brought you a set of TriCast 1 3/4lb (maybe 2lb) test curve 13' FAST TAPER carp rod blanks. These could put a 2 ozs bomb on an 8lb mainline and 20lb shock leader over 120m (fishing set up not just a lead over grass) all day long. They were simply a long range 2 ozs casting rod simple as that. Thing is as they were a (compared to today's standard 2 3/4lb-3lb) relatively light TC rod you could still play good carp under the rod tip with out ripping the hook out (this problem seems to start on and taper/TC blank over 2lb).

 

Today's modern rods/blanks though are all very similar in action and this basically came about due to one thing and that was when carp angling followed pike angling by adopting 15lb mainline as the standard.Previously 15lb would only be used in extreme "hit and hold" snag fishing situations and lines from 6lb (coupled with shock leaders and used for ultra long distance fishing) 8lb (pretty standard) and 12lb for weedy light snag conditions) were the normal lines. Now 15 lb line needs a lot heavier lead 2-3 ozs minimum) and therefore heavier rod to cast anywhere near the same distances and if you go long range your looking at 4ozs+ leads and today's "standard 3lb rod! Even the "light" boys "need" 2 3/4lb to chuck PVA bags/Method feeders about. As such the rod TC's became higher and the actions slower (to try and reduce hook pulls with the heavier TC's) Makes a pi$$ poor casting tool as well as a pi$$ poor fishing rod all round IMO!

 

My first "ultra long range" Big bream rods were in fact 1 3/4 fast taper carp rods (the norm then being 1 1/4 "Avon" style rods) and I recieved some flack for using them"!

 

As you and a lot of the other big bream/ tench anglers have found on here the only 1 3/4 rods you can find these days are "barbel" rods and these aren't really designed for casting! In fact the better quality barbel rods aren't as good as the cheaper ones for bream and tenching......once again due to action. So it seems your going to have to compromise a bit Rob.

 

As I see it (and you no doubt already realise) that compromise isn't between "casting" and "over gunning the fish" as most suggested but more a compromise between "casting" and "playing the fish". Simple fact is that anything you do (with modern available gear) to improve "playing" will affect "casting" and as your looking for a rod to reach fish at a certain distance this has to be priority.................simply because if you don't reach them in the first place you wont hook one to play in! As Ive said to you before (and if I remember right you tried?) going as low as you practically can on main line diameter helps a lot with the casting so therefore you can "get away" with a slightly lighter rod to get the required distance. After that its all down to just bearing in mind the power of your rod and going extra careful when close in.I have tried including a short length of elastic/power gum as a "shock absorber" for when in close but I will talk to you about this direct next time we are together.It has a lot of problems which may off set the advantages.

 

However all is not doom and gloom.I say this as I see there are quite a few more 2lb "specialist big bream/tench" rods on the market now from Harrison/Drennan etc that Ive not used so maybe they offer the answer? I don't know but would be interested in hearing.

 

On the subject of playing big fish close in on long range gear I want to just mention the two main issues.Those are light hook lengths breaking and strong hook lengths ripping hooks out. Now this isn't so much an issue with tench as they don't really need light hook lengths (standard carp ones are fine as we've seen!) and providing you get your rig right then good hook holds prevent the hook being torn out of their mouths.............doesn't stop mouth damage though! but this is more about the angler being sensible and not "skull dragging" as I seriously doubt the "one last dive at the net" is what causes damage more likely prolonged heavy pressure. The problem is more with the bream.All though they can and we have caught them on quite heavy,short,carp stylee hook lengths there are times (especially if I'm using small baits such as casters) that I want a fine hook length.More so it can enable the bait to react more freely/"naturally" when being sucked than for its "invisibility" (one reason I don't rate Fluoro Carbon). Now at range (on a mono main line) these are well cushioned even on powerful rods but close in its a different story" add a braided mainline into the equation then mega problems with a casting poker!

 

All things taken in to account Rob unless you find one of the modern "specimen bream/tench" rods I haven't tried are up to the job then I still think the low diameter main line/shock leader,good line lay long spool reel,lighter rod is the best answer.

 

Why not Ebay a late 80's to mid 90's Fast Taper Long Range TriCast or similar I hear a lot of you thinking? Sadly Any you do find that have been used to any degree will now have "softened up" (if either of my two sets are anything to go by!) and have that all important ACTION now resemble a soggy stick of Rhubarb!

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Even with heavy stiff rods I can't see a problem with a fish having a last attempt or two at evading the net as you can quite easily combat the lack of give in the rod via your reels drag.

 

 

Ah but as you were brought up on light tackle/traditional tactics Ian you learned to do this.Ive watched possibly as nearly as many "carp anglers" as I have match anglers now and many many have started with 15lb line and 2 3/4lb rods so know no different! The brighter ones soon realise it but fish are lost and damaged along the way whilst others never learn and put it down to their chosen quarry's superiority and mystical nature!

 

That said Ive seen quite experience carpers (probably done it myself or should say would have done it myself if I hadn't been "saved" by my preference for softer rods!) get that little bit to excited at the net cord and pull just that little bit too much more!

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Ah but as you were brought up on light tackle/traditional tactics Ian you learned to do this.Ive watched possibly as nearly as many "carp anglers" as I have match anglers now and many many have started with 15lb line and 2 3/4lb rods so know no different! The brighter ones soon realise it but fish are lost and damaged along the way whilst others never learn and put it down to their chosen quarry's superiority and mystical nature!

 

That said Ive seen quite experience carpers (probably done it myself or should say would have done it myself if I hadn't been "saved" by my preference for softer rods!) get that little bit to excited at the net cord and pull just that little bit too much more!

 

 

Yeah, I wasn't really considerring people who've been started with heavy gear. I actually think alot of people have their drags set far to tight and a lot probably have them screwed right up solid ! I prefer to have mine set a bit on the light side and finger pie the spool when needed. Saying that though if i'm playing a decent fish that pulls back I often/ always adjust the drag throughout the fight... shimano's fighting drags great for that as you'll know Budgie :) .

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Budgie, the Drennan tench & bream rods suit the way I fish very well, and are the best rods I could find for gravel pits in the lighter test curves. They are basically light carp rods, which are impossible to find these days! Completely different to barbel rods in action, they are sharp and crisp and allow even dodgy casters like me to land a rig on the right spot through the wind. When I got them, I - literally overnight! - fished better and caught more fish.

 

However, I don't like method feeders, preferring quite small leads and very small PVA pags nicked onto the hook. The 1 3/4 tench and bream rods I have wouldn't cope with big method balls. So I don't think they're the answer to Rob's question.

 

You're right about action being the key thing when it comes to casting and fish playing. I still reckon though that higher test curves help where extra power is needed - e.g. when fishing around thick weed.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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Actually I did specifically ask about the action of the blank in the original post.

 

On Barbel Rods - the action of these varies considerably between models so you can't tar them all with the same brush. Some models are ideal for the purpose like the Wychwoods which Glynn has. I have the Greys Prodigy Specimen which are supposed to be Barbel rods, again the action on these is perfect it's the rings I'm not 100% happy with - small and lots of them so in the event of having to up the line strength due to Weed then they could impact on casting. I can cast comfortably with these at around the 100 yard mark now having followed Budgies original advice on using a lighter mainline and leader.

 

WRT these North Westerns, the Kevlites I bought last year bend like a Croquet hoop and are useless at casting method feeders accurately at even medium range - imagine trying to cast with a 'slinky' and you might get some idea of what I'm talking about. They are great for lighter rigs at short to medium range though and the best fish playing blanks I've owned. I was hoping the 'Multi-Range' was a progressive blank and would offer a compromise between the casting and playing action making them more suitable for method work.

 

The other factor was it's not that much of a problem to me that I'm looking to go to the expense of 'new' rods. These were up for £50 on Ebay for the pair so were worth a punt!

 

Edit - fast taper blanks aren't great for method fishing, they can cause the ball to break up on the cast.

Edited by Rob Ward
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Actually I did specifically ask about the action of the blank in the original post.

 

On Barbel Rods - the action of these varies considerably between models so you can't tar them all with the same brush. Some models are ideal for the purpose like the Wychwoods which Glynn has. I have the Greys Prodigy Specimen which are supposed to be Barbel rods, again the action on these is perfect it's the rings I'm not 100% happy with - small and lots of them so in the event of having to up the line strength due to Weed then they could impact on casting. I can cast comfortably with these at around the 100 yard mark now having followed Budgies original advice on using a lighter mainline and leader.

 

WRT these North Westerns, the Kevlites I bought last year bend like a Croquet hoop and are useless at casting method feeders accurately at even medium range - imagine trying to cast with a 'slinky' and you might get some idea of what I'm talking about. They are great for lighter rigs at short to medium range though and the best fish playing blanks I've owned. I was hoping the 'Multi-Range' was a progressive blank and would offer a compromise between the casting and playing action making them more suitable for method work.

 

The other factor was it's not that much of a problem to me that I'm looking to go to the expense of 'new' rods. These were up for £50 on Ebay for the pair so were worth a punt!

 

Edit - fast taper blanks aren't great for method fishing, they can cause the ball to break up on the cast.

 

So did you buy them and what are they like?

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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So did you buy them and what are they like?

 

They didn't receive one bid in the auction so I made an open offer to the seller, not had a reply.

 

He did say he had them up for sale elsewhere though so they might have gone.

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I got hold of a couple of Daiwa 2lb Daiwa whisker kevlars for lobbing out the big drennan maggot feeders and the occassional feeder mix at Wingham. It is a personal thing but I do not like stiff action rods. Whilst I freely admit that this can be a drawback with casting accuracy at longer distances I am quite happy to sacrifice distance against fish playing ability. Yes you can set the clutch close with a stiff actioned rod but for me it does not compensate for having a rod with a through action acting like a big spring coupled with the right setting on the clutch. When I used to Carp fish a lot I always found that my much softer actioned Ballistas were much better at handling fish close in than my Amorphouses even though they were the same test curve. Also when fish are weeded I have found that what has worked for me most of the time is to leave the rod in the rest with a slack line until it moves off. Obviously there are occassions when this does not happen but after a prolonged waiting game it may be that there is no longer a fish on the end of the line. No it is not foolproof but I would wait for a long time before I even contemplated pulling for a break and only then if there was no alternative. It makes you wonder how they used to catch all those big fish many years ago with those low test curve bean poles. Just for interest Rob, I have also used my Diaflashes with feeders and they have worked OK but I changed to the Daiwas just in case as they are easier to replace if an accident occured.

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