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ANGLING UNITY, IS IT POSSIBLE ?


Guest STEVE POPE

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Guest Elton
Originally posted by Bretty:

(If there was a confused looking face with a furrowed brow i'd have used it here.)

confused.gif

 

That should do it.

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Guest dave k

As i have said in previose posts"i am just a pleasure angler" and as such fish for a variorty of species of fish(not with that much sucsess.)

The main problem i can see after reading most of the posts in this thread is the amount of single species clubs there are.

Are most anglers that narrow minded that they only fish for one type of fish to the excusion of all other's?.Or is it the commitie members of these clubs who do not wish to loose there sence of power?.

If all the single species clubs were required to join an umbrella group with a place on the committie would this help?.

I am secretary of a small club and feel sure our members would be willing to pay more for membership if the extra was going to a group they had confidence in, and was working for anglers rights.

Dave K

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Guest robbie
Originally posted by Ray Walton:

Robbie... You are obviously correct but please, please, put your real name upon the screen to be counted and stop hiding behind a bush if you want to be taken seriously! You obviously don't have a sense of humour and a clue to what's going on!

 

Ray,

Robbie is my real name I choose not to register simply to aviod remarks like yours. I am fully aware of what is going on as I take a keen interest in all topics related to Angling. The last time I looked my sense of humour was indeed working.As Elton suggests you should judge on my comments not who I am. It is clear you are unable to answer the questions posed? It is also clear that I was not alone in thinking that there was some ego involved in some of the threads passing between the two Steve's.I would love to see angling have one vioce to protect us all will it,can it happen who knows? If you are not prepaired to take me seriously or take on board valid remarks because I choose not to give you my profile. I suggest you are the one who should not be taken seriously. I have always fought my corner for angling but you acuse me of hideing behind a bush well so be it better to hide than use a high profile to look down on others as you appear to be doing. If my comments are wrong about egos and I have upset the two Steve's I appologise, if Ray you don't like my comments tough.

 

New to this bitching

Robbie

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Guest Stuart M

Yep Steve it is I. Still think that you could put it to the vote though instead of airing on behalf of the society..(not ment as a dig at you Steve), I think i have already upset Gordon on a previous thread..oops. By cost i mean actual subscription costs.

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Guest Ray Walton

Robbie.. Post your views on the subject and lets see what 'you' have to say to solve the problem!

 

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Sorry to interfere again, but to me, I find it a little unfortunate that some anglers obviously are missing out on quite a bit of fun, through a rigid loyality to a particular branch of our sport. "you have to kiss a few frogs, before you find a prince". It seems a lot of anglers, profess a loyality to a particular species of fish without giving other types of fishing a long enough session. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but wouldn't it be a shame if a younger angler, coming into the sport, felt in someway (s)he had to pledge an allegance to a certain area. This is a new(ish) thing, speak to any older angler and the rivarly between the different factions, didn't exist years ago. It's getting a bit like schoolboy politics "mines better than yours". It's not, every aspect of it requires it's own unique skills and methods, I say lets try them all, and all become "jack of all trades, masters of none", but lets do it together. Angling is becoming more and more "ego" orientated, and getting a certain unpleasant snobbery associated with it. Next we'll be holding a rod in one hand and a 4 iron in the other ! - It's all fishing, it's all fun, so long as nobody harms each other, and treats others and the countryside with respect, there's no problems. If fishing gets banned in this country, I for one will emigrate, but in all honesty, a sport with such a deep rooted history, no.. not a chance. Maybe everyone should take a little step back in time, where bankside chat, helping others enjoy the sport is now so sorely missed. Take a venue fished not so long ago, where there was a few who had a boilie baiting policy, they were so keen to tell everyone, come to the recipe, ah that's a secret ! Why ?, Catch a big species of fish on a venue, don't tell a sole ?

 

Why is this happening now ?

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Guest Ray Walton

Jase .. there are some very knowledgable single species anglers out there who have, and want to study there chosen quarry. It's not about catching all the time, it's about learning, logging your captures, feeding habits, river habitat, and protection of that species against pollution, water quality and habitat destruction, etc. These specialists make sure the fish are there for guys like you and your kids to catch in 20 years time. About 99% of anglers just fish and don't give a f**8 about any of what i've just mentioned and only mouth off when things have already gone wrong and when they can't fish their waters anymore. All they will do then is go elsewhere or take up golf!. Steve Burke has studied perch most of his life and is probably the saviour of the species in this country to some degree. There are others! The 'big' names on the specialist scene are not necessarily there by catching big fish, they have been put there because of their vast knowledge gained by decades of study and where their lives revolve around fishing and conservation awareness. Don't knock em!, just think of a way you and others could put something back into fishing so you don't get into the habit of taking out all the time. Rollin Ray... has had his say! wink.gif

 

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[This message has been edited by Ray Walton (edited 10 August 2000).]

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Thanks Ray, I nearly agree, however, I don't think fishing is about catching fish. Talking to someone yesterday, a carp angler as it happens, said the time you start getting competitive and frustrated about not catching is the time to give up. The pleasure of just sitting there, taking in nature is enough, catching fish is a bonus.

 

On the subject of fish behaviour research, errmm, wrong person. It's my full time job, not 40 hours a week, but 7 days 18 hours a day. This week, I have spent the week writing some research documents on the effects of temperatures at different water levels on different species of fish, and how temperature fluctuations affect fishes behaviour. Next week I am spending the same amount of time gathering information for 7 days, 24 hours in each one. I have the difficult job of applying logic to fish behaviour.

 

Please don't take my comments in the post higher as implying I agree with Robbie on the ego thing, I don't, and even if I did I certainly don't agree with pointing any fingers. I do feel that now there is a lot of cloak and dagger in angling.

 

[This message has been edited by Jase (edited 10 August 2000).]

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Guest Alan Pearce

Having not been to this forum for a few days I've just caught up on what's being said and NOW DECLARE ANGLING UNITY

What shall we talk about now? Seriously though the SACG and NASA are brollies for specialist anglers and will very shortly, hopefully, be joined as one having worked very closely together this past few seasons. A suggested new name for the group is the Specialist Anglers Alliance. At this point if not before, I truly hope that the Barbel Society will be on board with everyone else as I believe they have a big part to play in furthering the cause, not just for specialist but ALL ANGLING. As the Chairman of the Specialist Anglers Conservation Group and an individual angler interested in catching all species of fish I have found this whole thread of great interest and use. Let us all fight to maintain our rights to fish and protect the environment in which to do so. Let us also maintain the right of free speach and debate without losing our sense of humour. The common theme that all anglers have, is enjoyment, never lose sight of this, the very reason we all fish. Right so we have unity amongst all the disiplines so what would you like to do now. Can I suggest for starters that we put a list together of all the threats to angling and then we can look at how we can tackle them. And in the meantime while you are getting your head around this,if anyone would like a copy of the SACG Code of Conduct then please email me with your name and address so that I can post you a copy. alan@paauk.com

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Guest waterman1013

Steve P

 

I can't help thinking this post was strong enough without the second thread on the CA and fox hunting coming in. You should be proud to have started such a passionate debate.

 

Graham E

 

NASA conference September 2 Burghfield. I'll put details in the post to you, if I can find your address again.

 

Pete B

 

Pete there is now a membership form up on this site for SACG but I'll be e-mailing you some details directly.

 

pikehunter

 

Your post of August 3 confuses angling unity with angling manners IMHO.

 

We can acheive political unity under one umbrella for all anglers and represent our sport in the way it needs it. We do not need every angler in the country to subscribe to all the views that umbrella promotes, we simply need anglers to accept that others may have different views on some subjects.

 

SACG as a body manages to pull together disparate specialist groups, which do not always agree on the fine print in everything but agree that the big picture is greater than each individual group.

 

I believe that all anglers can be stronger uniting on those matters they agree about and sidelining some of the detail in the early stages of unity.

 

Angling as Hunting

 

Personally I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of the function of hunting with hounds in the countryside amongst anglers. Particularly those who are urban anglers. I do not support hunting with hounds. I am neutral on the subject, but I would defend the right of those that wish to hunt to continue to do so on the basis that if I rode then the most exciting ride (horse)I can image would be following a pack of hounds across country and over fences, which I did not know, in the company of like minded people. For riders it must be like catching a 20 or a 30. Most hunters never even see the kill, they ride for the fun of it and most supporters follow on foot and are ordinary working people like most of us.

 

I have always believed that as an angler I am a huntsman. My belief (right or wrong) in God gives me dominion over the animals. I don't have a moral problem with hunting and killing for the table or to control vermin. I do have a problem with wholesale slaughter of any species, hot or cold blooded, if the produce is wasted and does not end up on the table. But because I have a problem with that - do I have the right to question another's motives?

 

Anti Anglers

 

I have been reading PETA literature for some time now. Frankly it makes me sick. They want all animal life left entirely alone, including the insects. If they have their way the developing nations will be left to die of the tropical diseases spread by parasites around the world. PETA, as vegans, value animals at a higher level or at least at the same level as human beings. Personally I find that a lot more offensive than a few dead foxes.

 

uk_lurcher has it right in his posting of August 5. The antis will attack shooting as soon as a hunting with dogs ban is in place. Then they will attack angling. Our numbers will be no defence, we are still a minority and parliament is no respecter of minorities. Viz. the handgun ban - there have never been more illegal weapons and shootings in the UK than since this ban on legally held weapons. Politicians are now taking the view that hunters with dogs can be discounted because the majority will not be effected. The shooters are only a small group of 6 to 700,000, and Parliament won't respect their rights as a minority if the antis get their teeth into them, as they have with hunting with dogs. Next in line - anglers, with fewer than 1 million coarse licences sold. Anyone who thinks without unity NOW we stand a chance of defending our position is living on a cloud.

 

Already research shows that 29% of the great British public would happily ban angling. That is 1 in 3 against our hobby. Feel like defending it now?

 

The name of a group or the people leading it does not matter, only how good they are at doing so.

 

We need a permanent professional secretariat to administer the organisation. They don't need to be anglers just professional administrators. We need funds to pay them and to pay; professional lobbyists to represent the sport at every level of Government, both in the uk and within Europe; professional design/promotions specialists to launch teachers packs into the schools to encourage the formation of school angling clubs, promotion packs to angling clubs to help encourage those school clubs with provision of waters and facilities for the young angler, public relations professionals to influence editors and publishers in the media including the BBC and to promote the good news about angling. The list of opportunity is endless but we must have professionals to do it. At the moment nearly everyone involved in angling politics and admin is an amatuer, doing it in their own time and often at their own cost.

 

None of these professionals need be anglers.

 

We need the umbrella, comprising the anglers to determine what the priorities are and to determine the budgets and how funds can be best spent.

 

The organisation cannot be democratic. That is why the NFA struggles to be effective. It needs a strong leader with a vision of what can be achieved and an understanding of how it can be achieved and above all it needs funding. The debate between the BS and SACG forms no part of this scenario, in reality. Either people will back the idea or they won't.

 

Even within SACG there are differences of opinion on whether unity can be achieved. It does not stop us trying. The differences between anglers of different persuasions are insignificant compared with what the sport could be like with proper leadership and funding.

 

In the first instance the need for unity is driven by the need for funding. Sport England will not fund angling the way it is structured at the moment. If we want funding and a seat at the table to decide on future funding opportunities we need unity now. Tomorrow may be too late.

 

Funding is only available for the development of the sport and programmes to encourage youngsters to enter the sport. If you notice a lot of what I said about how we promote the sport is also about encouraging young people to join us. That has a political edge to it as well. Our numbers swell, we become a more powerful lobby, we gain increased funding and push for the rod licence income to be split between the umbrella and the EA with a reversal of the Government cut in Grant-in-Aid to fund the work of the EA fisheries section.

 

Who shares the vision?

 

Mike Heylin

 

Mike Heylin

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