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ANGLING UNITY, IS IT POSSIBLE ?


Guest STEVE POPE

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Guest Steve Randles

Alan: I think you are slightly missing the point of angling unity.

 

Lets not talk of specialist anglers..but merely of anglers, not mis-counting the Barbel society who for some reason have seemed to dominate these talks.

 

All:

 

At the end of the day we must assume that the other "specialist groups", Perchfishers,Tenchfishers,Carp Society etc,etc all fall into line, for no other reason than being poorly represented here (no access to a PC).

 

What about the rest of the anglers here, who are not represented by a single body?

 

These and more are reasons that we need a representatve body to stand up and fight for the one aim of the future of angling

 

Tight Lines

 

Steve Randles

 

P.S. Mike.Wheres my map of Burghfield?

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Guest waterman1013

Steve Randles

 

In the post first class this a.m.

 

As far as I know all the single specie groups, except BS, are either members of SACG or support our aims. There were some posts here which indicated/presumed that members of single specie groups only persued that quarry. That may be true in lots of instances but I think lots of anglers are members of more than one group, just like lots of anglers cast a worm as happily as they throw some fluff or boat fish for bass or cod.

 

At different times we concentrate on particular species and on particular methods but hopefully not to the exclusion of everything else that swims. I know many who devote themselves to one species but personally I think they miss a lot of pleasure. Specialisation does not preclude support for the methods employed by other anglers. Although I have to say, not as a matchman but as a predator angler principally, if I was fishing and anyone was landing lures within 10 metres of me that I would be pretty p****d off at them. I was always taught to observe the 15/20 yard rule regarding other anglers water and expect other to do likewise.

 

Have a nice weekend smile.gif

 

Mike

 

Mike

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Guest Alan Pearce

Steve: All anglers have a representative body, Coarse fishing - National Federation of Anglers (NFA), Game fishing - Salmon & Trout Association S&TA), Sea fishing - National Federation of Sea Anglers (NFSA). Due to the fact that Specialist Anglers (big fish boys) felt that they were not being represented properly by the NFA, back in the 1960's the National Federation os Specialist Groups was formed. In those days and I remember them just we didn't so much have single species groups, more individual groups seeking to catch specimen sized fish of all species. A lot of these groups were named after the county they lived in, for instance: Northampton Specimen Group or one that I was a member of for a couple of years the Mid Essex Specimen Group, which is still around today. In those days things were so secretive, venues, catches, baits and methods you wouldn't believe it. To give an example the rule of the group I belonged to was that all its members, which numbered 12 must share all information within the group, when my mates Len and Ted Head and I discovered that this was not happening despite our input, we left and set up on our own, the Stour Valley Specimen Group. And guess what with just the three of us we still kept secrets from each other! Anyway I digress, NASG represented the needs of the specialist anglers as the NFA was not interested in doing so, just like today ( although things look set to change a bit on this front, watch this space). As time went by specialist anglers became species orientated and single species groups began to form, the first two if my memory serves me well were the British Carp Study Group BCSG followed soon after by the Tenchfishers. Even here anglers could not agree with each other over variouse issues so duplication within single species groups occured for example, the Carp Society, then for barbel you have the Barbel Catchers, the Barbel Society and the Association of Barbel Enthusiasts (now defunct I think). Even the eel boys have ended up with three groups and I'm sure if a single burbot was ever caught again in this country at least two groups would be formed to specialise in there capture. Anyway with the uprise in single species groups the old NASG changed with the flow to try and represent their needs as well as the many individual specialists, and became the National Association of Specialist Anglers NASA. Time moved on and despite some sterling work from a few good anglers NASA itself began to lose sight of its function, this in the main was bought about by too few people being expected to do so much, nothing changes. Coming up to the end of the 80's and the biggest single species group, the Carp Society representing around 5,000 members expressed its displeasure and withdrew its support whilst at the same time helped with the setting up of a more pro active and political group the Specialist Anglers Conservation Group SACG born in 1990. During the past ten years SACG has proven its self time and time again as the voice of common sense within angling, some illustrationd of which are shown on this site, thanks Elton. Through its member groups and individuals the membership stands at around 11,000 but it is not just members it looks for, it is input. NASA still continues in a social role, producing an annual conference and two magazines a year. For the sakes of unity, history and ease of administration it has been proposed this year that SACG and NASA merge as one new organisation which will likly be named the Specialist Anglers Alliance. I hope this isn't becoming boring but it is meant to illustrate a bit of history and show how difficault angling administration can be, especially, specialist angling. I actually find it quite interesting and have begun the outline for a book on the subject called A Century of Specialist Angling which I'm hoping to complete by next June. Now with the forty or so interesting years specialist angling has had in management and politics, it has in more recent times used the expertise gained to try and bring angling harmony to all the other branches of the sport. And whilst being painfully slow it has not been without its success (I think thats the word). Every couple of months a meeting takes place between the angling governing bodies, as recognised by the Sports Council now called Sport England. These are the NFA, S&TA and NFSA who each receive grants from Sport England. By proving itself an intelligent, far thinking, determined and quite powerful force the SACG sits at this table with an equal voice not only to represent specialist angling but to use its experienc to unite ALL forms of angling. The SACG has also been instumental in bringing to the table to other important influences in angling matters, the National Federation of Angling Consultatives NAFAC and the Anglers Conservation Association ACA. Government and Sport England is now insisting on angling unity and will assist with future funding of the sport, but is tired of talking to so many individual organisations all with slightly different agendas. The main problem now facing the Governing Bodies is who is going to head it up, as you can imagine each of the GB's wants to do this, boys and ivory towers spring to mind. As waterman said earlier it would be far better for angling overall to employ a professional team to do this, one that has no axe to grind. Angling is a big, big sport second only in participation to golf around a million people fish and spend £400 million on tackle, bait and clothing. It is estimated that as much again is spent on permits, licences, publications, travel and holidays. A top professional team of managersis is required to do the job properly for the sport (you and I) and to interface with government, industry and commerce at the highest level, with input received from a United Angling Governing Bodies. No Steve I havn't missed the point I am interested, no passionate about all aspects of the sport. United we stand divided we slowly sink. At times like this I'm always reminded of a little phrase uttered in A Passion For Angling "here today, gone tommorow, promise to return yesterday". This could easily become the epitaph of angling if we don't watch out, but we wont let that happen, will we?

 

Best fishes Alan.

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Guest Robbie
Originally posted by Ray Walton:

Robbie.. Post your views on the subject and lets see what 'you' have to say to solve the problem!

 

Ray

As requested here are some of my views .

Forget NASA,SACG and the NFA they have all had thier chance to unite angling and have failed, why did they fail? to much in fighting amongst certain people for power, people ego tripping and with hidden political agenda's. The time has come to consruct a body of paid pro's to lobby and fight angling's corner. A body such as the ACA they fight for all forms of angling not just single species groups with large memberships.Ther has been a lot of talk about NASA and the SACG becomeing one to my mind that will not make any difference to you or me or to angling in general.The SACG only seem to want to further the interests of clubs such as the Carp Society or PAC with large memberships. Two such issue's they have already fought on behalf of these clubs being the 4 rod ruling and livebiating two issue's I personaly was totaly agianst.No the only way forward is an independant body paid for by you and I a feeling shared by many regulars of this forum. Would the ACA take us on board at the right price? They have the experts in place already they also have the right connections to further our cause. Make no mistake the end for angling is not as far away as you may think.How much should we pay? Myself what ever it takes to save our sport for what good would a sum of money be without angling? How much would you pay Ray? Rest assured the writing is on the wall for angling unless we stop all the infighting. We must get organised and get mobile for once hunting goes we are undoubtably next and if you can't grasp that you have your heads buried in the sand. A positive we could adopt straight away the return of the close season the bigest home goal angling inflicted upon its self. This would surely show the general puplic that we actualy care for fish and the country side. So is it possible you may ask? Anything is possible all you need is the will for it to happen only apathy can stop us as it has in the past.So Ray there are some of my thoughts there are many more like the introduction of cups and trophies and money bringing our sport down but I have no wishing to bore everyone I will save them for another day. I will await your response, but before you respond with ridicule or sarcasim from your high profile and high horse just ponder that for every so called name or politicaly motivated individual with hidden agenda's, or ego trippers there are thousands of ordinary people like that care very deeply for the sport of angling.

Robbie

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Guest Mystic

Robbie,

The typing alone must have taken you an age and still you don't seem to have grasped what this thread is about. What political infighting has there been in the SACG?

Which ego trip are you refering to?

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Guest Steve Randles

Alan..Thanls for filling me in!

 

The reason I thought you had missed the point was because it seems to be the BS on every bodies lips, yes no doubt thay have a part to play, but so do the rest of the anglers...I stand corrected.

 

See you all at NASA.

 

Tight Lines

 

Steve Randles

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Guest davidP

I would doubt the ACA would be interested - they are a conservation group. The people they have in place will be experts in this field, not dealing with Governments and the like - it's a completely different ball game. I have to say as well that I would sincerey doubt that you'll ever get an organisation funded to the level reqired purely by public donation - anglers don't like paying for anything (the NFA have made peanuts from their latest campaign - literaly about 20 quid!) The ACA survives and does a good job on a fairly modest budget but if memory serves me correctly there have been a few times when if they'd lost a case they'd have been in an extremely precarious financial position. Fortunately they don't lose (fingers and everything else crossed). I really don't think they'd want to get involved in the politics of it.

 

I also think it's too late in the day to start trying to set up a new body to do the job - it's going to have to be a conglomeration of the bodies that already exist. Why? Well the Government and the various bodies that run and finance sport in this country already recognise them and finance them, and they will be extremely loathe to start dealing with a new one. They also contain the people who are currently active in this area and have all the knowledge and contacts - to lose them would be disasterous.

 

The current bodies can't do it alone for the following (example) reasons:

SACG/NASA - anything with the word 'Specialist' in the title is treated with suspicion by pleasure and match anglers alike.

NFA - 'doesn't cover us' cry the specialist anglers (but then very few of them are members of the NFA so is that really surprising because the NFA represent their members).

NFSA - can't really represent freshwater angling (reverse applied to NFA).

Salmon & Trout Assoc - don't really like coarse anglers and also appear to have some conflits of interest with coarse anglers as regards some things like river access. They are without doubt the body with the most clout however!

 

So it's got to be down to the NFA, NFSA & S&TA to come together along with one of the specialist groups (SACG current favourite) to form a united front. I my opinion nothing else will work to the level we want or expect. It will have the advantage of being recognised and funded by the people who matter (ie government, sports council etc) and will have all the knowledge and contacts that will be needed. Sure, there'll be some dented egos and a few casualties along the way but it's got to happen, and sooner rather than later.

 

I'm all for SACG & NASA joining forces, and it would be very nice if all the various specimen groups joined in as well. At the end of the day however, if some of them feel they can't join in then it's not the end of the world because Joe Public thinks a barbel is what you lift in a gym, a chub is a type of lock and a perch is what budgies sit on! I would hope however that these groups could respect the greater need and not cloud the issues with often what is little more than semantics and interpretation. (this is not a comment aimed at any particular group - if you think I'm talking about you however then perhaps you should look at yourself!).

 

Assuming that the specimen world can come together then I think their first priority should be to establish a workable and lasting relationship with the NFA. That way, at the very minimum, coarse fishing speaks with one voice.

 

=============================

 

And as an aside on the comment about reinstating the close season. I personally would approve of it, but to call it an own goal is a misnomer I think. A huge proportion of Joe Public didn't know we had one and don't know that we now don't have one - it is of supreme indifference to them. And given that most of the pressure to remove it came from commercial interests who are merely providing what they think their punters want, I would have to say that a very large proportion of the angling community don't actually care about the countryside or fish welfare either - they just want to catch them!

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Guest Graham E

Hey, don't knock Robbie too much because he obviously has the interests of ordinary anglers at heart and has deeply felt views.

I would just like to make the point that on page one, I clearly said that unification would only happen with paid administrators with political nouce and management skills.

This has been picked up by many contributors, and is very true. For too long money from the sport has been going straight from anglers to manufacturers. With crumbs to anglers friends like the ACA.

Do you really feel those that make the bucks want a strong angling fraternity. Grow up!

It suits them to treat us like sheep. And so we are.

I am not a militant angler, just a pleasure fisherman, but If we can set the ball rolling, just imagine the influence we could enjoy and the opportunities to utilse the resources within, - all aspects of the community are represented. It just needs a start.

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Guest Robbie
Originally posted by Ray Walton:

Robbie... My only response is that you must  have a serious problem with other anglers for some reason!

 

Problems with other anglers? Just how do you come to that conclusion? You asked for my views on how to solve the problems with in angling I tried to relay them to you. You apparently can't grasp them. Unity with in angling will only come about if anglers wish it to happen. Can all the single species groups get together to form one united front for angling/ I doubt that very much.Mystic feels I have not grasped the thread he asks what infighting and what ego tripping, are you for real, just look at all the single species groups look back over their histories and you will have seen the afore mentioned. I have at somestag during my angling lifetime been a member of most of these groups and have seen all the poloticing,infighting and ego tripping to last the rest of my life.So if I have not grasped it I appologise and I will try harder in future. My views were asked for I gave them. Back to you Ray I still haven't seen any real contibution from you as to how you would solve the problem? Are you not willing to pay for a body to represent angling. Just how we get that body do we get it from a combination of NASA, SACG ,NFA,S&TA surely there has to be a way perhaps you can answer the question?????:rolleyes

Robbie

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