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Guest Chris Shaw

Two hook rigs and ethics.

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Guest Chris Shaw

Since the latest topic regarding (Is This Fishing) and bream anglers using two hook rigs I have been thinking. Somewhere amongst the posts I think somebody mentions roach anglers doing the same thing.

 

Now this has been done in carp fishing, the idea being that you present a carp with a single hookbait it has no choice and may well leave it alone rather than take the chance, present the same carp with two baits, the idea being that it may take the chance on one of them.

 

I used to fish a water where loads of free offerings were going in, I used to fish it the same with the same results, not alot. So I started to fish with just a hookbait and one freebee tied to the hook on a one/two inch length of PVA. These rigs I would cast to where I would see fish moving, nine times out of ten I would catch, but the anglers fishing the pile it in method just sat there.

 

Now while I fishing like this maybe carp where taking the chance on the single freebee and leaving the hookbait, now if I had two hooks out on the rods with two baits would I have caught more? It gives the fish no chance, what ever bait they pickup they get a hook, Is it ethical?

 

The one big problem that I can see in this type of fishing is in the fact that the other hook whilst playing a fish can/could get hook up into the fish, including it's eyes, not good.

 

 

The other thing I would like to say is, when I started carp fishing all those years ago in 1976 we used to cast out the two rods within two to three feet of each other and would keep recasting until this was achieved. We would then fire out about three or four free offerings into the same tight area. Did this achieve the same effect of not giving the carp many chances of missing the hookbait as in the two bait approach? I think that it did. Now stop and think for a moment about todays carp anglers, they place two to three hookbaits then pile in the freebees the more free offerings that you pile in the lesser the chance of a hookbait being taken.

 

So that is why I think the two hook rigs work.

 

 

---------------------------------

 

So to finish.

 

Do you think the two hook rigs being used for bream and roach are ethical or not?

 

Remember when the hair rig first appeared for carp fishing many many carp anglers thought this method to be unethical, but look now, everybody uses it.

 

---------------------------------

 

I see a few problems with this method.

 

 

1. The other hook can get hung up in the fish whilst playing, this could be in the eyes.

 

2. What are the implications on leaving a rig like this out on the bottom after a snap off.

 

3. Getting a mainline break whilst playing the fish and leaving a double hook rig trailing from a fishes mouth.

 

Footnote:

 

I have never used a two hook rig for carp, only pike.

------------------

Chris Shaw

 

They played on while the reel handles spun in unison.

 

[This message has been edited by Chris Shaw (edited 08 June 2001).]

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Guest Graham E

Chris I think I am in the minority on this forum.

I would NEVER use a two hook rig to catch fish as I consider it unethical.

Saying that I accept that the method will catch more fish, and if that is the criterea of a perceived good and clever fisherman.....so be it.

Then again I still believe in the Closed season to protect our indigenous stocks!

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Guest phil hackett

As a bream, roach angler amongst others, my view is that 2 hook rigs are tether rigs and should not be used for that reason.

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Guest Peter Waller

Two hook rigs are nothing new. Trout fishermen have done it for years. As kids we used two hook rigs for bream when paternostering. Two steels booms, just like sea fishermen. One on the bottom and one off. Two fish on at a time was pretty rare but it did happen. That was in the days of 100 lb catches being the norm. Ten pound line and size six hooks. Primitive but effective. The majority of bream used to come on the top hook. Acceptable today? I think not.

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Guest Paul Williams

Chris,

In answer to your questions,

1. It doesn't happen, if you thought about the mechanics of the rig for a while you would see why....

2. The implications are the same as any other rig.....ever left a cracked off deadbait out???

3.My rigs are NOT fixed rigs (niether were Terry Lampards) but i admit some "specialists" who should know better do use them, as in any fishing this is wrong.

 

Your statement about more freebies lessening the chances of a pick up is just not true...ask any succsessful particle angler....

At the end of the day you don't want to fish this method....then don't but why have a pop at it......i find lure fishing ruins a good walk but i don't have a pop at the method!!

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Guest Vagabond

Just a few thoughts.

 

Paul Williams said the use of two-hook rigs is legal - OK - I'm neutral on the ethics of more than one hook, always provided the risk of tethering is eliminated. So in case anyone wishes to use two hooks, can I ask you Paul for the benefit of the less experienced, to give brief details of how your rig is designed to avoid tethering. If a method is legal, and is NOT potentially harmful to the fish, in my book whether to use it or not is down to the individual.

 

Trout fishers often use two, three, and sometimes more flies on a leader - this is certainly a potential tether rig and I fairly frequently catch fish that have the remains of a multi-hook break-off trailing from their mouths (and am often amazed by how small a fish has broken the rig of another so-called angler) Sensible use of different breaking strains on main cast and droppers should minimise the likelihood of tethering, but most people tend to make up droppers using pieces of the same BS nylon held together with water knots, and tie droppers to the spare ends. If you fly fish with droppers, please give some thought to designing the rig so as to avoid tethering.

 

Many seafishing rigs are also potential death rigs. Experienced carp fishers would spot them straight away. Again, we need to apply the same ingenuity to seafishing rigs as the carp boys do to theirs.

 

 

 

------------------

Vagabond

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Guest Chris Shaw
Originally posted by Paul Williams:

Chris,

In answer to your questions,

1. It doesn't happen, if you thought about the mechanics of the rig for a while you would see why....

2. The implications are the same as any other rig.....ever left a cracked off deadbait out???

3.My rigs are NOT fixed rigs (niether were Terry Lampards) but i admit some "specialists" who should know better do use them, as in any fishing this is wrong.

 

 

Your statement about more freebies lessening the chances of a pick up is just not true...ask any succsessful particle angler....

At the end of the day you don't want to fish this method....then don't but why have a pop at it......i find lure fishing ruins a good walk but i don't have a pop at the method!!

 

--------------------------------

 

I post my reasons why I think two hook rigs work, I then go on to give what I think could be bad points, then you accuse me of having a pop confused.gif

 

I am merely trying to start discussion.

 

Also particle fishing is a differnet animal to fishing boilies and paste baits etc

 

I have spent many many years carp fishing and have spent many many hours particle fishing so I have no need to ask anyone, thank you.

------------------

Chris Shaw

 

They played on while the reel handles spun in unison.

 

[This message has been edited by Chris Shaw (edited 09 June 2001).]

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Guest Paul Williams

Vagabond,

If you take a look at the article in this weeks AT you will see that Terrys rig is not a fixed one.....mine is very similar.

I haven't looked into the articles on this site to see if anyone has written about the rig but it may be on there, it is certainly commonly used.

Let me add that i do not use the rig all the time, there are times i prefer a freerunning rig, it is just part of the range of options open to us.

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Guest Paul Williams

I think i had better clarify "fixed"....the rig is a self hooking rig so the hook lenghts are "fixed" enough to pull the hook home....but they slide off the mainline if broken off and the fish hooks up........this is the idea behind safe self hooking rigs.

O NO....now the anti self hooking brigade will be on my case eek.gifwink.gif

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Guest Paul Williams

Chris,

We are talking about two hook rigs and bream fishing.....a style that uses mass prebaiting.....usually of small particle type baits....It was Terry Lampards article hat sparked the debate not boilies pastes and carp fishing......i jumped to it's defence because i use the methods and have done for a long time.....so you see i don't have to ask anyone either....i use the rigs and i know what they do and don't do!!!!!!!!!!!

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