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Livebaiting for pike


Guest Pinkeye

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Guest Nobrott

Phil,

 

Your earlier post was one of the most eloquent and rational defences of the right to use livebait I've ever come across - but whilst it puts the issue into perspective from an anglers point of view - I doubt if it would sway neutrals.

 

On the more specific issue of a ban on moving livebaits between waters, this has been tried time and again at a local, regional and now national level in the form of new rules introduced by the Environment Agency in 1999.

 

But there has always been a minority who choose to ignore these rules and thus spoil it for the rest.

 

The fact that it is these people, who are amongst the most enthusiastic advocates of the right to continue livebaiting undermines the credibility of people like yourself, when they have demonstrated, time and again, that they cannot be trusted to abide by rules which are designed to protect the creatures they profess to care about so much.

 

Mark

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Guest TheDacer

Nick,

 

I know, i know, i know....

 

But where are answers to what I've said?

 

I'm open to persuasion, but I'm not being persuaded.

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Guest NickInTheNorth

Geoff

 

Stand firm, stand united, defend our practises. Do not open the door and invite the antis in.

 

Show PETA for what the are, a bunch of nutters, with a global vegan agenda.

 

Leave banning of angling practises to the antis. Do not agree to any of them. Defend your sport, your whole sport, not just the bits you like.

 

Regards

 

Nick

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Guest Nobrott

Some of these posts sound a bit like the different factions in Conservative Party on the Euro.

 

They've been trying to bury this issue for a decade but it keeps rearing it's ugly head and look where it's got them.

 

It's difficult enough to defend something in which you do believe in the face of attack from sophisticated opponents, let alone something you aren't entirely comfortable with.

 

We've heard the arguments against outlawing livebaiting until we're blue in the face, but as Dacer asks, what are the arguments FOR the continued use of livebaiting?

 

'It's the only method that catches fish on some waters' simply will not wash with a neutral who views the practice with distaste.

 

They might just reach the conclusion that if livebaiting is such an essential aspect of angling, then the whole lot should be banned.

 

Mark

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Guest phil dean

Mark, your user name is aweful, biggrin.gif

Re your comments as to why we should be able to livebait/what are the positive reasons for it? I'm sorry but to me you are looking at this in a strange way.

 

The positive aspects of fishing are, that it provides a form of relaxation to me, it teaches me a respect and better understanding of the environment, that through fishing I have made friends, that it gives me a sense of achievement when I do well, that it allows me a glimpse into the underwater world. Above all I really enjoy it.

 

others see other benefits to themselves.

to society in general it provides a great way of capturing the imagination of youngsters who perhaps had little focus.

 

Fishing with a livebait is just that, fishing with a bait which is alive. Much as a maggot or a worm is alive. Some fish are so alive in fact that some have escaped and started colinies outside of their normal area. In the US, as mentioned above, there is no distinction, here it is an issue but it shouldn't be.

 

Fish, no matter how attached we may become to some species and individuals within it, are just fish. I don't kill fish for food from my river because:

a> I prefer beef which is easier to deal with and I can buy from a local shop; and

b> because I choose not to have too much effect on the balance within the river

 

It is not because fish are cute and cuddly, people put down mice traps and rat poison and nothing is said, which is fine, and yet we are modifying a balance which could otherwise exist. Choosing to use a livebait is less detremental than this, and the only reason "nuetrals" view it as cruel is because they assign feelings to these creatures which they do not possess.

 

All that is happening is that the fisherman (woman) is enjoying their day out, using a bait which works which happens to still be alive and stands a chance of thriving, as opposed to a dead sea bait which is exactly that...dead.

 

People need education as to what fish really are, not mammals like the lowliest rat even.

 

Finally (and I know I've rambled on again) but why are we even having these discussions?

 

we should show that we will not be pushed around by governments PETA or any others that try, we should certainly not be saying "let them do this then they may leave the rest of us alone...."they" wont. All "they" want is an easy target, if it was a valid case which they craved, then more would be done to stop bull fighting in Spain, The eating of Monkey Brains in China and those dogs I mentioned above in Vietnam. They, be they peta wanting to turn us all into Vegans, or politicians trying to find a vote winning bandwaggon, want an open door that's easy to push in order that "they" can demonstrate a victory. Don't open that door, stand firm and fight.

and how to fight well involve yourself in the Fishing weekends, take your father/mother sister brother, daughter sister etc fishing, talk to them, teach them but don't give an inch on something which does not make sense.

 

 

 

 

------------------

phil,

JOIN ANMC TODAY

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The reason they want livebaiting banned is to stop alien fish being introduced to Scottish waterways and affecting the natural balance these waters have. Its well know that Ruffe are the most prolific species in Lomund, having been introduced by anglers.

So why cant we turn this around and get Ruffe (or roach, bream etc) the only live bait that can be used on these waters.

We can then put this forward as "Pike anglers helping the removal of alien species to restore the Loch's and lakes" a mesage like that to the neutral says we are helping and doing our bit for the enviroment. We are then a fishing pest control.

Just a thought,

Scott.

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I’ve tried to avoid this one, as it is a very tricky situation. First let me make my position clear, I have no strong feelings about using live fish as bait, if anglers wish to do so then so be it, like many others on this forum, I have heard a good deal of argument both ways and still neither side has persuaded me to alter my neutral viewpoint.

What seems to being missed somewhat is the cause of this particular thread, the proposed ban on livebaiting in Scotland. This is nothing to do with PETA or the Anti’s, it is an attempt by the Scottish assembly to prevent further damage to the native fauna by imported and illegally moved live fish, not maggots or worms.

As with most issues politicians get involved with it is probably an overreaction and the simplistic way of addressing a serious issue. There is no doubt that the illegal transfer of fish to be used as bait by predator anglers has had a major impact on a number of waters, not only in Scotland, it is this issue that should be addressed, however rather than come up with a viable method of policing such matters the easy option is to go for a blanket ban. The only problem with this approach is that the selfish so and so’s who are responsible for this kind of behaviour are exactly the same kind of people who will ignore any ban and continue to move/introduce fish.

The whole argument should be about enforcing the existing rules and showing how this would then protect the native species, this not only would ensure the right to fish with live fish as bait but would also show that anglers do care about other aspects of the environment.

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Guest NickInTheNorth

Let me ask a very simplistic question.

 

What is the difference between me catching say a minnow on a size 14 hook, and a single maggot, and having caught that fish with a hook through its lip, re-hooking it on a size 8 through its lip, and casting it to a chub. (Which if the gods are smiling I then hook through its lip!)

 

Nick

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Nick

simplistic answer, lip hooked minnow, nothing wrong, 8oz roach, one treble in the lip one in the back, cast 30 yards.......not so sure

 

Lee

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