Trebles for carp

[Guest Tim Kelly]

Richard

 

I don't think I'm being hypocritical and hiding from any "truth". I want to catch pike. I lure fish. I would catch hardly any if my lures only had singles on them.

I think that if you want to start getting too precious about damaging fish you must look at the effects of catching them at all. There are surely question marks about heavy leads swinging around close to hooked fish, especially with "Bolt rigs". Also what about people bait fishing who snap their tackle off accidentally. They leave lots of line in the water, a danger to all wild life on the water, and a baited hook which might very well kill the fish which eats it.

We all decide on what we do or don't find acceptable when we go fishing and act accordingly. We all have to be very careful about screaming for a ban on anything we don't personally want to do.

 

Tim

[Guest M Godliman]

The trouble with objective rational replies is that basically I can't see that Richard is interested at that level.He began his long reply with sorry when clearly he is not, the whole tract is disingenuous in the exreme so it's then more difficult to believe he believes in the welfare of the fish.

Martin.

[Guest oolichan]

Tim Kelley,

 

If you think trebles are absolutely neccesary in hooking certain species, than it is my opinion that you probably haven't fished these species any other way. Example:

 

I fish Sturgeon regularily on the Fraser River, in BC (Canada). We fish only bait rigs. We consistently hook and land fish up to 8'(my biggest is only 6') on an 9/0 single barbless hook.This is set line bait fishing with baits that dwarf the hook, and the hook set is consistently good.

 

We also fish Pike with 4 inch spoons and a 3/0 single barbless. I rarely lose fish on the hookset or after. The single barbless penetrates the mouth easy and doesn't offer the fish the leverage that a treble does to throw the hook.

 

Anyone that fishes singles alot will agree that they are more effective than a treble, or at the very least as effective.

 

peace

 

------------------

www.coastangler.com

[Guest Tim Kelly]

Obviously it's possible to hook fish with a single hook on a small spoon, but a larger crankbait or jerkbait equipped with just a single hook would not hook anything very often. I use single hooked and treble hooked spinnerbaits. I use the ones with the treble on in open water because you get more hook ups. Using single hooked spinnerbaits you seem to get more bumps that come to nothing than with trebles. If I'm fishing through weed I use the single hooked version because it's more weedless and accept the lower hook up ratio as a price for good presentation. The same is true with spoons. A single hooked weedless minnow spoon (Rapala)is a less reliable hooker than a treble hooked version.

As for the bait fishing, I have no idea how a sturgeon takes a bait or how long you wait before you strike the fish, but I think that those who object to using size 8 trebles to hook a pike would have kittens if someone suggested they use a 9/0 single instead! The use of trebles has developed so that people can strike soon after the pike has picked up the bait with a reasonable chance of hooking the fish. Musky bait fishing (using suckers) has traditionally used large single hooks, but after the fish has taken the bait people are supposed to wait up to half an hour before striking to make sure the fish has swallowed the bait. This obviously kills the fish. In recent years they have started to use what they call "quick strike" rigs, which is basically a snap tackle, so they can strike as soon as the fish picks up the bait. This is seen as a great step forward in conservation, less dead musky.

Of course it is possible to catch pike using single hooks, but you definitely miss more fish. If you are fishing a bit if water where the fish are queueing up to jump on your hooks then you don't mind missing some of them by using singles, but for most of us a take is a rare enough event to not want to miss the chance when it comes along.

 

Tim

[Guest Steve Burke]

Originally posted by BarbLess:

Trebles and Barbed hooks should be banned full stop. They are not necessary, and do alot of damage to the fish mouths.

 

Barbless, I don't for one minute doubt your committment to fish care - indeed I applaud it. However, I do take issue with you when you turn what is just your opinion into a statement of fact. This is dangerous ground whatever the subject, but is especially so when such a comment could be misused by the antis.

 

In some instances I agree with you that barbless hooks are preferable. Where I disagree is I don't believe this is always so. There are pros and cons to barbed hooks in many spheres of angling - and I'm not talking here about hooking efficiency, but solely about fish care. (I've brought this up in previous debates on this topic but obviously you remain unconvinced!).

 

To take just one example, barbless hooks in the larger sizes can actually kill perch in my experience. This is probably because they penetrate more deeply, or possibly because they don't stay in one place and instead move about and tear the flesh. Whatever the reason, perch have their vital organs near the surface at the back of the throat, and I'm convinced that barbless hooks increase the risk of damaging these organs.

 

In fact, I'm so concerned about the dangers of large barbless hooks that I'm just about to ban them on the Coarse Lake at Wingham. The only things I haven't yet decided is at what hook size the cut-off will apply, and whether the ban will apply with all baits. Any comments here gratefully received.

 

This means that if you attend the Forum Fish-In at Wingham next May you'll probably have to restrict yourself to small hooks or use barbed ones instead!

 

 

------------------

Wingham Fisheries

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/fisheries/wingham.htm

[Guest M Godliman]

Steve,

I was a bit reluctant to go into the details of the debate as it has been held so far,but I do agree and have experienced hooking perch as you describe on very moderate sized single hooked spinnerbaits and had the hook come out through the eye on a nice sized perch or small pike,also singles can make a long slot in the top jaw of a pike or along the upper mandable when using jigs with a single.So I am not entirely convinced about the campaign for singles barbless or not.I reckon a treble more often jams itself into place without penetrating and with barbs more shallowly than with barbs.

Of course this obviously isn't always so and I don't claim it but what really erks me about some of the previouse postings is the moral absoluteism of some I just cant take them seriously.

 

Martin.

[Guest spindle]

Steve

 

It's an interesting point you make about using barbed hooks for Perch. I'm hoping to spend part of my fishing time this autumn trying for perch on my local river and as a noted perch authority, I'd value your advice. My usual bait will be worm, probably lobs. In your opinion, what is the optimum size of hook you would use, and barbed or barbless? Would you prefer to use a large barbed hook, or a smaller barbless? I appreciate that worms can wriggle of a barbless - I was planning to use some type a rubber stopper to prevent this. What about "pinch-barbed" hooks from Preston (I have some in size 10).

 

Cheers

 

Spindle

[Guest trent.barbeler]

Hi Everyone,

 

Richard Capper? I dont recall the name but his style is very familiar.

A shame there is no email address in his blank profile.

 

Interesting.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Guest Pinkeye]

Richard Capper,

How can you say that you feel that carp anglers are more caring than predator anglers? Do you have evidence?

 

I fish almost exclusively for pike and I care for my fish as much as the next angler, there is nothing worse than generalisations -don't tar everyone with the same brush!

 

By the way, Richard, do you use a keep net when you go fishing? I don't!

[Guest trent.barbeler]

Hi Pinkeye,

 

Generalisations?

 

Heres one for the mysterious Mr Capper to remember.

 

The PAC, Carp Society, Barbel Society, Barbel Catchers Club, Zander Anglers, Perchfishers, Tenchfishers, NAC, ESG, ECS, Chub SG, CARP SG, Barbel SG and a host of other single species groups have been and continue to be;

 

AWESOME when it comes to the conservation and preservation of their chosen species.

 

Theirs is a collective dedication towards the well being of ALL fish that simply put, is a shining example to all.

 

Well, nearly all.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.