Is the water too high?

[Newt]

Ahhh Nugg - so you've done some messing about on fast water then. Most folks tend to look for spots downstream of an obstruction and never figure out there is a calm patch just in front and preds hang around waiting for dazed food to swim in to them.

 

That being said, this one is really a little muddy for my taste and I think I'd wait until things calmed down some.

 

d.cobb - I enjoy fishing dam tailrace areas myself from time to time but there you are dealing with fish who are accustomed to those conditions and probably are more likely to feed. Some great catfishing there at times. Also, according to Globetrotter, carp enjoy fast water. I've never tried it but he has and says they can do nicely in conditions that would daze a trout.

[onionhead1965]

your right about the fish ifront of an object also I wouldnt fish if it was that muddy (i looked at the pic again), not moving water anyhow.i fish tailraces as its one of the few places not crowding you out with boat traffic and the fish stack up there especially the cats sea run stripers and those huge shad. seems here it is like a super highway on the water. except for extreme low water then the fishing is bad except for those little bait stealers that are around everplace low or high water.so i have gotten used to bad conditions out of necessity. but id have to be desperate to fish such water so muddy and fast. but i have had success under severe conditions.

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Newt,

 

Interesting little topic this one. Well, interesting from an English point of view.

 

Most Americans sport fish with the aid of artificials do they not? Hard to imagine twitching one of those jelly wormy thingmies through that sea of mud you posted. But then again, you Americans do seem to come up with all types of wobbly contraptions that catch just about anything.

 

The thing I find really quite odd are some of the traditional comments in books and stuff concerning fishing an English river in flood for barbel. Odd because where I fish, the River Trent, I almost always have vast lengths of the river to myself when the river is in flood. So where are all the intrepid Trent barbel anglers at such times? In the pub perhaps, or in the arms of a Paul Boote type female?? They are certainly not on the river at such times that’s for sure.

 

Peter Waller said;

 

"A good flood can dislodge food and that brings many fish onto the feed."

 

True. But this is mostly appropriate from a Trent fish catching point of view when the flooded river returns back into its banks and the fish return back into the main body of the river to take advantage of the free food debris.

 

For instance; When a Trent flood is in full rage, brown and full of mud bursting its banks, it is easily noticeable that all kinds of debris is floating down on its surface. But consider for a moment, the amount of sub-surface debris that is hurtling down? I can tell you absolutely that this amount is thousands of times more than what you see on the rivers surface. Then consider exactly what’s going off down on the river bed itself. Gravel, pebbles, stones and large boulders are constantly rolling over several times amid a storm of thick silt. Sunken logs are also on the move. Now consider the Trent barbel's mainstay diet and how this is being affected. As these stones, pebbles, boulders, logs are on the move they roll over crushing large amounts of snails, limpets etc. Not then so hard to imagine exactly what triggers a barbel feeding frenzy when the river becomes more suited for the barbel? Make no mistake, when the flooded river is in full rage as I have described, barbel get out the way but as conditions improve they move out to feed on what are already dead or dying invertebrates. And the length of time such a feeding frenzy continues after a flooded river returns to its banks relies solely on the amount of dead or dying invertebrates there are out there. Its not just barbel that are looking for this easy to obtain feast but all the other resident fish species as well.

 

But what about the time window when the river is in full raging flood? Can the barbel be caught in such dreadful conditions? Yes they can, yes they are, but you have to know exactly where to find them. I would bet a pension that if I were to take say four barbel anglers for a walk along the Trent when it was in full raging flood, asking them all to list likely barbel holding areas along say a seven mile stretch, 90% of the areas listed would in fact be totally devoid of barbel in such conditions. Could this be the reason why no one appears to fish the Trent when it’s in full flood? Could a lot of these anglers have already tried to catch barbel in what they feel are likely places but have failed to such an extent they simply stay away?

 

Any fool can catch Trent barbel in the summer and autumn. I expect the same could be said for any English river with a sizable head of barbel. But catching barbel consistently from raging flood conditions is another proposition entirely.

 

Perhaps we should set up a "guiding" venture Peter? You down on the Broads with me up on the Trent eh?

 

Nah. I like fishing for fun and I can't see the coracle floating level with all those tellies on board.

 

But then again, there’s always the coal barge……………….

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[onionhead1965]

well i wouldnt say most of us fish with lures i rarely use them nowdays,they work but have lost the desire to use the and have made the switch back to bait.mostly they are used for bass fishing and some others as our fish are a little different in their preference in foods( i think its because they are a little less intelegent than the carp and carp like fishes.) there are times when the water is just too violent like this past summer here in florida we got hammered by the hurricanes brought the waters up and flooded everything, but soon as the dam gates were opened and the water flowed and started to drop the bite was on some of the best conditions ever especiall where the freshwater met the brackishwater.there was a feeding frenzy with lures and baits.the bite was on for a few weeks.so unless there is massave violent waters or you dont have the right stuff to fish it go out and give it a try or ask someone for advice on fishing a flooded spot.early spring iceout floods up north offer the best carping in usa right upto spawn and after.and the water is usually like mud then.

[Steve Burke]

Newt, was that a pic of the Oak Creek that runs through Sedona?

 

I've fond memories of the place and have a lot of pics of the beautiful red countryside, including the river at normal level. Unfortunately they're all slides so can't post them here without going to the expense of converting them.

[unukwolf]

d.cobb:

live to fish and fish to live.

DAMN that sounds familiar!

[Newt]

Steve Burke:

Newt, was that a pic of the Oak Creek that runs through Sedona?  

It is Steve. Usually a little better behaved than that but they've had some serious amounts of rain recently and some warm weather (unseasonable) that has added snow melt to the mix.

 

I have seen the Grand Canyon and while it is awesome, it is too much for my mind to really grasp. I much prefer Oak Creek Canyon. Equally breathtaking but on a smaller scale so easier for me to really see.

 

Lee - very interesting post and should be serious food for thought for UK anglers who like to chase barbel and are hardy enough to fish winters.

 

[ 09. January 2005, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Newt ]

[Andy Macfarlane]

I like fishing for brown trout in those kind of conditions (1st picture).

I'd probably touch leger big bunches of lob worms on a 2 foot hook length. Brownies thrive in those kind of conditions and they like nothing better than a tasty meal wafting enticingly in front of their faces.

No problem as far as I can see.

['eelfisher']

Dear ALL.......

 

Quote.........Trent.barbeler

 

"Dear Newt,

 

Interesting little topic this one. Well, interesting from an English point of view.

 

Most Americans sport fish with the aid of artificials do they not? Hard to imagine twitching one of those jelly wormy thingmies through that sea of mud you posted. But then again, you Americans do seem to come up with all types of wobbly contraptions that catch just about anything.

 

The thing I find really quite odd are some of the traditional comments in books and stuff concerning fishing an English river in flood for barbel. Odd because where I fish, the River Trent, I almost always have vast lengths of the river to myself when the river is in flood. So where are all the intrepid Trent barbel anglers at such times? In the pub perhaps, or in the arms of a Paul Boote type female?? They are certainly not on the river at such times that’s for sure.

 

Peter Waller said;

 

"A good flood can dislodge food and that brings many fish onto the feed."

 

True. But this is mostly appropriate from a Trent fish catching point of view when the flooded river returns back into its banks and the fish return back into the main body of the river to take advantage of the free food debris.

 

For instance; When a Trent flood is in full rage, brown and full of mud bursting its banks, it is easily noticeable that all kinds of debris is floating down on its surface. But consider for a moment, the amount of sub-surface debris that is hurtling down? I can tell you absolutely that this amount is thousands of times more than what you see on the rivers surface. Then consider exactly what’s going off down on the river bed itself. Gravel, pebbles, stones and large boulders are constantly rolling over several times amid a storm of thick silt. Sunken logs are also on the move. Now consider the Trent barbel's mainstay diet and how this is being affected. As these stones, pebbles, boulders, logs are on the move they roll over crushing large amounts of snails, limpets etc. Not then so hard to imagine exactly what triggers a barbel feeding frenzy when the river becomes more suited for the barbel? Make no mistake, when the flooded river is in full rage as I have described, barbel get out the way but as conditions improve they move out to feed on what are already dead or dying invertebrates. And the length of time such a feeding frenzy continues after a flooded river returns to its banks relies solely on the amount of dead or dying invertebrates there are out there. Its not just barbel that are looking for this easy to obtain feast but all the other resident fish species as well.

 

But what about the time window when the river is in full raging flood? Can the barbel be caught in such dreadful conditions? Yes they can, yes they are, but you have to know exactly where to find them. I would bet a pension that if I were to take say four barbel anglers for a walk along the Trent when it was in full raging flood, asking them all to list likely barbel holding areas along say a seven mile stretch, 90% of the areas listed would in fact be totally devoid of barbel in such conditions. Could this be the reason why no one appears to fish the Trent when it’s in full flood? Could a lot of these anglers have already tried to catch barbel in what they feel are likely places but have failed to such an extent they simply stay away?

 

Any fool can catch Trent barbel in the summer and autumn. I expect the same could be said for any English river with a sizable head of barbel. But catching barbel consistently from raging flood conditions is another proposition entirely.

 

Perhaps we should set up a "guiding" venture Peter? You down on the Broads with me up on the Trent eh?

 

Nah. I like fishing for fun and I can't see the coracle floating level with all those tellies on board.

 

But then again, there’s always the coal barge……………….

 

Regards,

 

Lee."

 

Best bit of reading I have had on here for months and months and months and months......

 

Yours With Respect......

Steve.

[Andrew Boyd]

Andy I tend to agree with you, but bugger touch ledgering when in a canoe. Try looooooong trotting.