Otter

[chesters1]

Well you might have a point there somewhere, however I will take issue about the 'untold amounts of pollutants pumped into our Waterways''

 

Couldn't be that you are a tad glass half full sort of chap are you?

 

Oh! and one other thing my 'carnage' comment about the Otter was supposed to be 'tongue in cheek' I don't really think they would destroy a fishery overnight

 

A week maybe

the reson i used "untold" is that water companies have no legal onus to tell us (the people) how much untreated (or semi treated or "completely" treated ) sewage is discharged into water courses ,the sampling for contaminants is shady as it is.

"treated" sewage is by and large only filtered not perfectly clean .a simple legal way for getting water companies to buck up their ideas of treatment is a simple law " water discharged into a watercourse must be cleaner* than the watercourse its entering"

 

* cleaner not only in solids but chemicals as well

 

i'v been fishing since 1960 and theres far fewer fish now ,it cannot all be otters ,cormorants or mink these have only raised their head in numbers (if 100ish otters is a number) in recent years so it must be something else and it must be man

 

The water companies punish the user for low water tables but sell licences to extract millions of gallons from it and lose even more through their own negligence ,the EA are a clueless bunch of brushcutters and bank straighteners and anglers blame everything but themselves for the rest..

 

people forget if you artificially have a large amount of fish in a feedered pond those next on the line downstream get poluted and de- oxygenated water in their feeder stream ,you either work with the balance of nature or suffer the consequences ,otters work within it or die man does not

 

another strange fact is fish wernt always eaten by furry animals or birds ,man used to eat it on an industrial scale but now on the whole has stopped since we got the taste for sea fish (that happened with the railways) so comparing now to the past nothing is eating fish so its more subtle than a few otters

Edited February 1, 2012 by chesters1

[barry luxton]

Records for 117 licensed releases over 16 years Barry not including the quite legitimate release of recovered injured and orphanned animals (no figures for those but probably quite low).

 

...that's 117 animals....not 117 thousand

 

Thanks for that.

 

Humm, it would be interesting to know how many pairs where right little breeders and how many of these released lived long enough to get established and thrived.Don't appear to be a lot.

[chesters1]

how many were gay or shy?

[Worms]

Thanks for that.

 

Humm, it would be interesting to know how many pairs where right little breeders and how many of these released lived long enough to get established and thrived.Don't appear to be a lot.

Haven't got the details to hand to quote them Barry but average lifespan of otters in the wild is approximately three/four years. They achieve sexual maturity at about two and infant mortality is estimated to be about 50%. They can have four young but more likely two.

 

Working on those figures, otters are typical of most apex predators, a long time (relative to size) to reach sexual maturity, high cub mortality and low numbers of young. They are highly susceptible to habitat damage and disturbance but can, as opportunistic feeders, make the most of an easy food supply!

[Guest redfin2]

Exactly why I asked the question redfin,to conceed that some off us (myself included) may be basing our opinions on different experiences and circumstances to others. Rather than adopting a "Im all right Jack" attitude I would much rather check that those who state the otter is causing a problem in their area are in fact right and that I dont understand/cant empathise simply because my situation isn't the same.

 

If they could convince me that this was the case then I would support them 100% regardless of if it was a personal issue to me or not.

 

So far though I havent been convinced and the way they have put their case only confirms my initial doubts about their credibility. As I mentioined before I come across anglers screaming about the evil of otters in my area where (to my knowledge) there arent any................and more importantly I see these same anglers (who tell me how informed and knowledgable on the subject of otters they are) pointing out mink as otters.............

 

Well I suppose I have a slightly different set of circumstances in that the Rivers around these parts (Severn Catchment) do see quite a few Otter and Mink, so there will be heavier fish mortality and thus more out pouring of grief and fingers pointing in all directions as to who the culprit(s) are.

 

I guess we as Anglers HAVE to adjust and accept that we now share 'our' waters with the Otter, and that is a better scenario than the Mink, although both of which are endearing to the eye.

 

The question for you Budgie do you feel as you are missing out by not having the Otter in your area?

 

Personally, I will admit to having shifted my position on the Otter, all down to AN really I was guilty of going along with the Bandwagon that is other Forums I guess. I have seen Otter a few times and I was in awe, the sort of feeling when you see a Barn Owl hunting at dusk, and that's fine with me, I do however feel that there will be discrimination by Anglers for a time but that will subside I hope, who knows Otter might even help in what we do.

 

But of course some of us treat Angling merely for Kudos, to show off the next 'dub' and pay little attention to anything else, to me that's a pity, for I am as happy catching gudgeon or if I am lucky barbel, but the 'Industry' of angling is not geared up for that, there is no profit in Gudgeon, there is however in Carp and Barbel, and the Otter is to them public enemy No1.

[Guest redfin2]

the reson i used "untold" is that water companies have no legal onus to tell us (the people) how much untreated (or semi treated or "completely" treated ) sewage is discharged into water courses ,the sampling for contaminants is shady as it is.

"treated" sewage is by and large only filtered not perfectly clean .a simple legal way for getting water companies to buck up their ideas of treatment is a simple law " water discharged into a watercourse must be cleaner* than the watercourse its entering"

 

* cleaner not only in solids but chemicals as well

 

i'v been fishing since 1960 and theres far fewer fish now ,it cannot all be otters ,cormorants or mink these have only raised their head in numbers (if 100ish otters is a number) in recent years so it must be something else and it must be man

 

The water companies punish the user for low water tables but sell licences to extract millions of gallons from it and lose even more through their own negligence ,the EA are a clueless bunch of brushcutters and bank straighteners and anglers blame everything but themselves for the rest..

 

people forget if you artificially have a large amount of fish in a feedered pond those next on the line downstream get poluted and de- oxygenated water in their feeder stream ,you either work with the balance of nature or suffer the consequences ,otters work within it or die man does not

 

another strange fact is fish wernt always eaten by furry animals or birds ,man used to eat it on an industrial scale but now on the whole has stopped since we got the taste for sea fish (that happened with the railways) so comparing now to the past nothing is eating fish so its more subtle than a few otters

 

Thanks.

 

Can't argue with any of that.

 

Well not at the moment anyway bidding on Honda Mower ebay

Edited February 1, 2012 by redfin2

[Anderoo]

Well Barry's comment has been posted and 'Admin' has responded with more gibberish, so I assume mine was not deemed worthy.

 

Luckily I got a screen grab

 

[barry luxton]

Well Barry's comment has been posted and 'Admin' has responded with more gibberish, so I assume mine was not deemed worthy.

 

Luckily I got a screen grab

 

 

Having just read yours Andrew, your also a very naughty boy, unlike me i'm nice.

[Anderoo]

Another one for Bob, I'm not expecting him to publish it but he might read it:

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Bob, here's a simple question for you:

 

What are fish for?

 

Here's another:

 

Which is more logical - a native animal behaving naturally or stocking waters with fish solely for us to catch them and put them back?

 

Or to dress it up in your style of language, 'to cram thousands of innocent creatures into an alien environment to be routinely tortured by people who get a twisted kick out of brutally sticking sharp hooks in their mouths, forcing them to fight for their lives, removing them to another alien environment where they can't breathe, and then put them back so someone else can do the same thing, over and over throughout their miserable lives? At least the otter eats some of the fish, and knows no better.'

 

Now, I am a lifelong angler but the above is exactly the same tactic as you and others like you in the angling media are employing. If you are really determined to take this to the real world, you'd better have some cast-iron responses to stuff like this that will placate non-anglers, otherwise you are dragging us all down a very slippery slope.

 

Trying to establish similarities with disperate situations like mink, pet rabbits, brown tree snakes, and god knows what else seriously weakens your case, and dressing it all up in anthropomorphic language might hit the spot with the uninformed and angry angler, but the general public and the real world media - who will be the ones who ultimately decide whether to allow us to continue our quiet and harmless pastime - will tear stips off you, and by extention all of us.

 

Think about it.

[Worms]

Excellent Anderoo!