River roach rigs

[denzil]

hi anderoo this is something i've been working on recently a bit and the best thing i've come up with is the paternoster fished with a long hook length 4 or 5 feet size 10 hook i find i still get these plucks and pulls that cant be hit but tend to sit through these and wait for the unmissable pull round often tho after 10 or 11 small plucks they have removed the bread from the hook and plucks stop so a recast is in order. i have had a play wit the bolt rig and not had much joy on the river i think that might be something to do with bread and bolt rig combo but it gave me a head ache so i gave up on it! sorry mate this post is probably no help at all but its a great subject. my non findings have come on the ouse good luck

[Anderoo]

Thanks for that Denzil, that's actually very helpful. A plan is now starting to form! Taking all the points so far I think the bolt rigs are a red herring (for running water).

 

A friend managed a few stunning Ouse roach a few seasons ago. I've tried a couple of times and failed

[lozza]

I know it may sound strange but have you tried useing a smaller hook? Ive been haveing the same problem loads of bites but very few hookups went smaller had more fish. I also tried up stream ledgering totting and stret pegging more fish trotting but smaller size stretpegging I hit more bits and a bigger average but the moove out of range I was thinking about useing hair riged fake maggots and only hit a bite when its properly wraped round il give it a go tommorow.

[Guest redfin2]

The fact remains I reckon Anderloo, and I know you like bread, but if yu are missing so many you probably need to scale down with bait size and hook size. I had a pm session on a local river and the only 3 bites I had were on single maggot on a 16 fine wire hook, on 4lb straight thru, all good chub though,but alas no roach

I am never confident fishing big baits in winter, although the maximum benefit from big baits for minimum effort for the fish should be a factor. With small nuisance fishing not being a factor I would certainly consider a maggot approach,perhaps with a small drennan maggot feeder to get the bait where they want it, and then switch to a light bomb if they are really spooky.

Should be great method for some cracking chub

Edited January 25, 2012 by redfin2

[Anderoo]

I tried scaling down and the same thing was happening, if anything I think I need to scale up! Small fish may be a factor, I'm not sure yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the rattles are from small stuff. I aim to find that out at the weekend.

 

I think a major factor last weekend was the wind. When I was able to get the rod up in the air, the bites were easier to hit. However, the wind made that impossible most of the time, it really was a nightmare!

 

If it turns out I'm only missing bites from small fish, that's fine. Of the fairly small amount of roach fishing I've done, I've always found flake to be quite selective for the better fish, and the average size we've had on flake so far is good. That's not to say I won't try other baits, but at the moment I'd prefer to get the bread rigs/tactics working well if I can, simply as I have more confidence in that approach for the better fish...as long as I can improve on the hit rate!

[Vagabond]

. Sometimes I'll point the quivertip straight up the line and watch the bow in the line for bites, or alternatively touch leger.

 

Yes - as we both spent a lot of our formative years casting the upstream worm, its not suprising that we both have similar ideas. Upstream legering is a logical extension of the upstream worm. You start with an unweighted bait, and then find situations where a shot or two helps, then other situations that need a bit bigger shot, and so on........

 

With regard to bite detection, I always watch the bow in the line (rod in hand, top joint resting on a forked stick if necessary) if the light is good enough. If I am near enough, I watch the point where the line enters the water - the meniscus if you want to be technical As the light fails, and I can't see the line, then I revert to touch legering. My guiding principle is that the nearer to the fish your bite detection system is, the better. Sight fishing , when you can see the fish take the bait is perhaps the ultimate in bite detection.

 

,,,but having said all that, my best roach (it came from the Gt Ouse) was taken on a free-lined lobworm fished downstream for chub.

[Phone]

All,

 

"meniscus" What a cool fishing word """"the convex or concave upper surface of a column of liquid, the curvature of which is caused by surface tension"""". (online dictionary)

 

In all my years I've never used this word in an angling context. I had always heard and used it as a part of the Anatomy.

 

Phone

[Steve Burke]

All,

 

"meniscus" What a cool fishing word """"the convex or concave upper surface of a column of liquid, the curvature of which is caused by surface tension"""". (online dictionary)

 

In all my years I've never used this word in an angling context. I had always heard and used it as a part of the Anatomy.

 

Phone

 

It's something that those of us Brits of a certain age in particular are well used to. I use it on stillwaters too, especially if I'm looking around me and get a single bleep on the alarm. Then my eyes go straight to where the line enters the water. The meniscus itself is visible only on a calm surface.

[Steve Burke]

Yes - as we both spent a lot of our formative years casting the upstream worm, its not suprising that we both have similar ideas. Upstream legering is a logical extension of the upstream worm. You start with an unweighted bait, and then find situations where a shot or two helps, then other situations that need a bit bigger shot, and so on........

 

With regard to bite detection, I always watch the bow in the line (rod in hand, top joint resting on a forked stick if necessary) if the light is good enough. If I am near enough, I watch the point where the line enters the water - the meniscus if you want to be technical As the light fails, and I can't see the line, then I revert to touch legering. My guiding principle is that the nearer to the fish your bite detection system is, the better. Sight fishing , when you can see the fish take the bait is perhaps the ultimate in bite detection.

 

,,,but having said all that, my best roach (it came from the Gt Ouse) was taken on a free-lined lobworm fished downstream for chub.

 

I hoped you'd post something like that, Dave!

 

The upstream worm of course is a lot more difficult than static upstream legering. In fact it's probably the most difficult technique that I've learned, and it took a long time to get reasonably proficient. It seems to be almost a lost art now.

 

Something else that seems to be dying out, though not to the same extent, is touch legering. For me touch legering came before quivertipping (thanks to the influence of Peter Stone). In fact it was only after many years that I used a quivertip rod. And as I mentioned, even now I often don't use the quivertip for bite indication. I find being able to use both options less tiring as you can switch from one to the other.

 

Granted touch legering means always holding the line and holding the rod still, so some won't like it, especially those who suffer from cold fingers. It's a little more difficult to learn than quivertipping, especially when there's little or no current. However it's well worth adding another string to your bow (pun intended).

 

You've nothing to watch so touch legering enables you to take in what's going on around you and so can be relaxing. It also makes it easy to read a bite and determine whether it was something like a leaf brushing the line rather than a pick up. With a bit of practice it even enables you to determine what sort of bottom you're on.

 

Most of all though the bites are just so exciting!

Edited January 25, 2012 by Steve Burke

[Anderoo]

I don't know why, but I've never enjoyed touch legering. I can see why it's an effective technique though, especially after watching Rich using it to pluck out an enormous chub last winter!

 

When chubbing I often use the tip as an early indicator of a bite and then pick up the rod and feel for a positive take (a bit like with pike I suppose), which works well if they're in a shy mood and you need to feed them lots of slack line to stop them rejecting the bait - so perhaps I'm a semi-touch legerer

 

I've never fished the upstream worm, but I have the upstream nymph with fly gear. Easily the most difficult fishing I've ever done!

 

Nearly the weekend - soon be roach time again