River roach rigs

[Tigger]

We're getting lots of bites, so bait isn't a problem. We just need to turn the bites into hooked fish.

 

 

Yeah but the bait may be causing the missed bites. Maybe scaling right down using punched bread on a small hook would be better than using flake which they can pick at ?

[Phone]

Tigger,

 

Exactly my thoughts. 15:1 becomes frustrating.

 

Phone

[Anderoo]

We've tried tiny bits of 'squeezed' bread (same as punch really) on small hooks and still get the sharp jabs. They want to eat the bread and I have confidence in it for good roach, so I want to keep using it.

 

Two things I'm going to try next time are a very free running paternoster with a long hooklength and big bow of line to see if that encourages them to hang on a bit better, and at the other extreme a little helicopter bolt rig like the gravel pit roach anglers use. I tried a version of the bolt rig at the weekend and it didn't work properly, but I think I can improve on it.

 

Anyone used bolt rigs for roach?

[JV44]

We've tried tiny bits of 'squeezed' bread (same as punch really) on small hooks and still get the sharp jabs. They want to eat the bread and I have confidence in it for good roach, so I want to keep using it.

 

Two things I'm going to try next time are a very free running paternoster with a long hooklength and big bow of line to see if that encourages them to hang on a bit better, and at the other extreme a little helicopter bolt rig like the gravel pit roach anglers use. I tried a version of the bolt rig at the weekend and it didn't work properly, but I think I can improve on it.

 

Anyone used bolt rigs for roach?

 

Anderoo the problem you mention is the same as i have encountered ,Not saying the culprits in my case are Roach but i do have my suspiscions....Budgies upstream tactic sounds interesting i may give that a go ,i have some small inline feeders i have thought of trying for the bolt rig thingymajob....do they sound like they would be ok ?? Steve.

Edited January 24, 2012 by JV44

[John Weddup]

Hi Anderoo

 

for years now most of my end of seasons has seen a fair few after dark sessions for bigger roach on the river. As it gets a little lighter for me its easy to get riverside just before dark on way home from work.

 

I have had frustrating sessions when its hard to hit bites but all the 1lb plus fish I have caught are normally a good wrap round that cannot be missed.

 

It may be that some of the knocks and rattles were also good fish.

 

I have always fished as you are obviously afterdark its quiver tip normally cage feeder and my standard 14/16inch hooklength. I use a size 10 hook of a fine wire like you no doubt do and a biggish bit of bread. Fine wire large hooks are getting difficult to find.

 

I do prefer to use A thin sliced loaf with the crust underdone i.e. white. There is a lovely spot of crust just below where the top curve starts that is my favourite. I peel a bit of this off fold it double and hook it. This gives a firm hookhold without sqeazing it too hard so stays fluffy aswell but it will also stay on hook after several ratlles and attention from smaller fish giving you confidence to leave it out.

 

When a match angler friend used to fish with me a lot on those days where bites are missed by both of us he would swap things around for ages until he started hitting them. He was always convinced the changes made the difference. Unknown to him I would stick with the same tactics i started with and would also start hitting the bites when he did.

 

I would stick with what you are doing I think its the right method.

 

As others have said though sweetcorn has been a favourite big roach bait aswell and it stays on the hook after little fish have had a go. Last year I found that hair rigged produced more fish.

 

I wonder if its possible to hair rig my favourite bread crust.

 

John

[Anderoo]

I'm not sure to be honest Steve! The stillwater guys seem to prefer the little helicopter rigs but I'm not sure yet if they work the same in running water. Getting a little bolt rig to work is my preferred option so far, if possible. I made one last night that I'm going to try next time. I read somewhere that a chap fishing for river roach started catching lots more simply by putting a back stop a couple of inches above a running feeder, so I'm keen to try something similar.

 

We had exactly the same issue at the Itchin fish-in last year, lots of sharp bites and very few fish.

[Anderoo]

John, very interesting post, thanks. It could be that these bites are from small fish and so aren't actually a problem (as Budgie said I need to find out if that's the case).

 

Hair-rigging bread may be hard, but you could hair-rig a bit of that magic bread?

[Steve Burke]

From my "Fishing Frozen Rivers" article here on AN (link below);

 

"Q I'm after some specimen roach from a small river but I'm having trouble hitting sharp taps on the quivertip on warm days let alone frozen ones! Have you any suggestions?

 

A Small river roach bites are notoriously difficult to hit, but there are several things that may help. If there is little wind you could pay out some line after casting so that a distinct bow forms and then watch this bow for bites. Normally, it would also help to move the weight further from the hook, but as mentioned in the article a short hook length is usually better when the river's very cold. However, perhaps the best solution is to leger upstream and use as little weight as possible. The slightest touch will then show by the quivertip springing back, and the fish will feel little or no resistance. Alternatively, you could switch to the float and lay on slightly overdepth. Once again pay out some line so that there's a little slack between the float and the rod top."

 

During warmer weather I also find trotting works well and gets round the problem of missed bites. However on my rivers legering sorts out the bigger fish.

 

The vast majority of my legering for roach and perch is done upstream. I leger downstream only as a last resort.

 

BTW, I find a carbon quivertip better than a glass one for fishing upstream.

[John Weddup]

The other thing I have found with after dark sessions for roach on the rivers is there seems to be a golden half hour. They suddenly turn on and there is almost too much action to keep 2 rods in.

 

They have a feeding session that when its cold might only be 10 mins or up to 30 and it happens at different times on different days. Normally somewhere between sunset and 9pm.

 

My match mate and I fished a weirpool several times one of us would be in the shallows and the other in the deep water and when bites started we both got them and when they stopped it happened in both swims. You could sit there another 2 hours and not get another bite from roach. We would occasionally still pick up chub.

 

One of my best chub catches came in a stretch not renowned for them but known by a few for good roach It was an evening session in the february from 7 until 9 it was chub city all fish over 4lbs.

 

You have to remember in the suffolk stour no one I know can prove to have caught a 2lb fish for many years although watatoad seems to have done so. A 1lb fish is a very good fish now.

 

John

[AddictedToScopex]

Hi Anderoo,

 

A very interesting subject for me as I love quiver tipping on the river. There are two things that immediatelly spring to mind when I think of quiver tipping for silvers on the river. The first being tension. One way that I have found to connect with a larger percentage of bites is to increase the tension on your quiver tip right up to the point where if you put any more on it will dislodge your lead/feeder. Sounds a bit counter intuitive when you consider resistance but I have found that when quiver tipping up stream the extra tension causes the lead to dislodge very easily even with a small bite and ping back pulling the hook into the fish. It is almost like a kind of spring trap. Using this method it is rare that I need to strike and hook an awful lot of fish. I have found upstream feeder work to be far more productive than downstream for silvers. A short 6-8" hooklength is a must for me with this method and around a size 12-14 fine wire hook.

 

The second point is to beware the small dace and minnows. They are absolute buggers for fishing the maggot feeder or other small baits and will hammer your maggots on a constant basis no matter how big or small they are without taking them all the way into their mouths. This gives you an awful lot of small plucks which can be amplified by a soft quiver tip to appear larger than you think. The quivers and vibrations rather than the plucks you usually see on your quiver tip when fishing for smaller fish are in fact the fish attacking the feeder and not the hook bait. I have found this to be a very good sign as it shows confidence and lets you know that the fish are really on it. I usually shorten my hooklength in this situation as you know they are not being shy about moving up onto your bait.

 

If I am seaching out the larger fish I will always use a large kernel of corn on the hook with a hemp, corn and groundbait feed of course with scopex blended in. Very similar to the sweet groundbait I had at wingham if you remember.