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Livebaiting for pike


Guest Pinkeye

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Guest phil dean

I think that the post above regarding the use of Ruffe is a fair one, as are the comments about enforcement.

Lets not get into arguments of do we use minnowsw or raoch, what's cruel or isn't, it's not the point of this thread and many of the posts on here will only help to fuel arguments for the banning of livebaits on the grounds of cruelty, let us stick to the point, the plans in Scotland to ban livebaiting are effectively a reaction to a problem which could best be dealt with by other means.

Banning livebaiting will not stop it, but enforcement of the rules might.

 

As a matter of point, I don't tend to live bait, but should I ever choose to, I want to be able to.

 

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phil,

JOIN ANMC TODAY

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Guest Tim Kelly

I find hard to believe that ruffe have been introduced to any water by pike anglers. Since when have Ruffe been a livebait of choice? I believe they have the same trouble with ruffe on the great lakes of America and Canada which are thought to arrive in the water ballast in boats, along with the zebra muscles.

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Guest fishboy

surely if it were crule to hook a fish to cast it out ,it would also be crule to hook one to wind it in. i say you should give people the freedome to make there choise and not try and tell them what they can and cant do. if the rule dont exist it cant be broken.

the movement of fish spiecies is wrong, but its nothing new and there is not a thing anyone can do to stop it. a 3oz roach or a 30lb carp if some one wants to move them they will. Ban or no ban

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Guest Alan Pearce

One of the great benefits the sport of fishing has given me, all that are posting here and hundreds of thousands of other anglers, is that it has led us to become conservationists. We all care about what is going on in and around our waterways, is that great or what. If in time to come we allow the thin end of the wedge to widen, to allow the practice of fishing to become so difficault that people become dis-interested, what then? The interest in angling would slowly phase out and with it the interest and conservation in our waterways. I honestly believe that without angling as a sport our rivers would become drains, lakes would be allowed to silt up and our gravel pits would become land fill sites.

 

For angling to survive and prosper it is vital that we all stand shoulder to shoulder to support our sport and the conservation of our waterways, for if WE don't then who the hell will. If angling allows itself to be divided then little by little it runs a very strong risk of being outlawed, maybe not in our lifetime, but in our childrens, or their children.

 

If the translocation of fish species is found to be a problem laws have been put in place to protect them and these should be enforced. Some trout fisheries supply live fish baits for use on their waters so that anglers don't have the need to bring there own baits along, this is a positive step forward. Should not those fisheries in other areas, like parts of Scotland, also consider this first IF scientific evidence proves that anglers are guilty of introducing alien species and that these DO harm the home species.

 

I for one do find it hard to beleive that pike anglers would bother to go out and catch ruffe / pope to take north of the border to use as pike baits. After all they must rank as one of the all time worse speciesof fish to use as bait.

 

How many anglers have been found taking live baits to these waters? And what was the contents of their live bait buckets? Does anyone know! In other words what or where is the evidence that pike anglers are responsible for the introduction of unwanted species into other waters and what harm has been caused? It would be good to see some facts.

 

Alan.

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Guest Pinkeye

In principle the grounds cited for the proposed ban are reasonable, there is a danger to indigionous species of fish from alien species being imported by anglers releasing their left over bait at the end of a days fishing. Certain species of whitefish such as vendace are becoming very rare.

 

The proposed live bait ban would be taking the most drastic of action to prevent a relitively small "crime" (meaning the actual act of livebaiting, not the wiping out of a species) from being committed. A bit like banning drinking alcohol because occasionally a drunk person becomes violent.

 

There should be no problem for most anglers to accept that legislation be put in place to only allow a fish that has been caught (legally) from that water being used as a bait for a predator. I could accept that rule. There will always be anglers who break rules, even if a blanket ban existed some anglers would still try to get away with using lives - fact of life.

 

We are simply trying to find a way to protect every aspect of our beloved sport and if that means backing a method that you personally do not actively participate in or perhaps even find offensive (to a degree) then so be it!!

 

A point that has been raised several times during this thread is that in order to defend livebaiting (for example) we must put together tangible arguements that would convince the non-angling public that we are right to want to maintain the present situation (or perhaps accept a modification to the proposal). One of those tangible arguements would be strength of feeling - if we all vigourously defend this aspect of our sport people will listen.

 

Look in your dictionary at the word synergy; it means something like the collective reasorce of a group is greater than the sum total of each group member's reasource.

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Guest pikemaster39

but hang on your deadbaits were once live were they not?? hummm!! so its ok to let a poor sea fish gasp its life away so you can go fishing is it???

 

 

and didnt they ban livebaiting in ireland and what is the most popular method over there yup you guessed it, livebaiting.

 

let each to their own I say

 

Originally posted by TheDacer:

I'd rather see livebait ended.

 

I know some of you will blow up at this - and why not?  I'm sort of attacking your method.  So you're entitled to feel defensive.  

 

When I go Predator fishing I either deadbait - use Smelt from the fishmongers - or go spinning, and I think I get enough fish to not need to turn to livebait.

 

Maybe there are waters where the livebait approach alone would work?  I really don't know.  But I do know that it's an issue - like the use of Gaffs used to - which divides angling and always will do.

 

I don't think you can expect unity on this.

 

But whilst it is legal - make the most of it!

 

 

 

 

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Andi

 

http://www.sussex-pac.co.uk

ICQ:- 3728327

SACN 0286

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Guest Adrian

I do not use live fish as bait and have not done so for years.

 

Each fish I catch is treated carefully and returned to the water with as little harm, in as short a time as possible. I cannot reconcile this with a practice which,I assume inevitably results in the demise of the baitfish.

 

Whilst I appreciate the 'stick up for the livebaiters, what practice is next on the list' argument, is it not possible that rather than saving livebaiting, livebaiting could drag the sport down. I do not refer to a banning of Angling nationally, but a few lakes here, a pond there, probably controlled by councils with woolly, pink leanings who are swayed by the arguments of people using livebaiting as an example of our 'brutality'.

 

If the argument goes outside Angling circles, there will be virtually no support for livebaiting. Amongst my non Angling friends (wife included), it is the one practice that transforms us from merely sad, big kids to sadists.

 

At present I would support the right to choose, but I really would prefer it if anglers not to.

 

Cheers, Adrian

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Guest tony jolley

Dueing the M,A,F,F "salmon and freshwateries review" carried out last year, ALL the predator groups put their support behind a statment put forward by the S,A,C,G on OUR behalf this can be found on the home page of this forum Please take a look and digeast its contents, Can some one bring a copy on to this thread, as I dont know how to do it?

This statement is the joint view of the groups and I hope any individual predator anglers can and will show support for it.

Thanks

Anthony Jolley.

National Anguilla Club and Eel Conservation Society commitee member.

 

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Tony B.T Jolley

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Guest TheDacer

Blimey!

 

Are people really trying to defend livebaiting by saying it's the same as using a dead fish?

 

Or that casting a fish is the same as reeling one in?

 

Come on.. surely you can defend it with a bit more vigour than this!

 

Let's hear some good reasons for Livebaiting!

 

I can't think of one.

 

And I know neutrals regard it as cruel.

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Guest tony jolley

Please remmember this thread is about the banning of livebait in scotland due to the thought that the released fish are manageing to breed and so on,

The ban as far as I can see has nothing to do with the morals or useing live fish, so why have we got in to that avenue,

LOOK AT THE S,A,C,G STATEMENT as I have already mentioned the discussion SHOULD end there,

But I know that some of you would like to see a nail drove so hard in to the coffin that it totally splits the grain, So to speak.

This even makes me question some peoples motives!

and I`m not sorry if I have offended any one with that statment , because its a stupid disagreement to debate in public like this.

You really are giving the antis their arguement.

I`m not saying we should avoid it and hide it away, This will be discussed by ALL the predator groups, and hopefully ANY individual predator angler, I`m sure in the future, It would be foolish not to, and we can formulate a defence in our own time,

Just support the petition as you were all asked in the name of ANGLING. OK!

 

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Tony B.T Jolley

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