The 3m Farce

[poledark]

I've had to do that (well not HAD to, but at least made some attempt to remove hooks) a couple of times. On both ocasions the lining of the stomach got torn. So my motto is "prevention is better than cure"

 

Den

[Phone]

Steve,

 

Maybe you'll enjoy this. At least you can add it to your sources if you wish.

 

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.157...263.1#tabModule

 

If the corrolation for catching small fish to "naturals" bait size is that certain why do sportsmen use small bait? Am I reading it correctly, heavy bleeding gill hooked or deep gullet hooked has a 75% mortality? I guess you would have to define "heavy and deep". Lures other than soft plastic and spoons and greater in size than 75mm have a 3% chance of causing a fatal injury (is that right?).

 

Phone

Sorry BUDGIE - off topic.

[Dick Dastardly]

I've had to do that (well not HAD to, but at least made some attempt to remove hooks) a couple of times. On both ocasions the lining of the stomach got torn. So my motto is "prevention is better than cure"

 

Den

 

 

Now there we do wholeheartedly agree. Regardless of whether you can deal with a deep hooked fish it should be avoided at all cost.

 

Some years ago I had serious doubts that deep hooked pike were in fact ok after being returned.I started to worry about this due to the number of apparently healthy fish (upon release) that later died,These fish were caught on a local trout reservoir and were to be relocated.After capture they were held in a holding pen in the reservoir for any length of time (up to several weeks) before being moved. As Ive mentioned before some times damaged fish that seemed goners recovered fine but worrying was the amount of apparently healthy fish that were lightly (seemingly) hooked and swam of strongly when put in the pen that later turned up dead. If released into the wild would the same have happened and the angler be no wiser? I started to worry that inverting stomachs etc was nothing more than a way to make the angler feel better (ie seemingly having released a pike with no harm done).

 

Yes I accept that trout reservoir fish do seem to be in general even more delicate than others and that the stress of being in the retaining pen itself may not have helped. Out of interest we started noting how individual fish had been hooked (and any other information about their capture such as water temperature,depth of water etc they we thought could be contributory). Outcome of this (carried out over two seasons and averaging 300+ fish each season) was totally in conclusive! So I cant say there was any evidence of deep hooking allways being a killer there as nearly as many "lightly hooked" fish also later died (approximately 30% of all fish later died).ALL gill raker injured fish died.

 

However I still believe it should be avoided.Despite the findings I also struggle to believe that it doesn't matter.An example of why is why do deep hooked pike come in a lot more docile (in general) than pike hooked in the mouth? Surely of all places in any animals anatomy the stomach is one of the hardest areas to repair? At best the extra time on the bank required to extract deep hooks it self can not be good.

 

But that's just for interest and you can make your own mind up about the findings. I will also say that in my experience an awful lot of so called pike anglers talk a good deep unhook but in reality are just "mat and forceps stabbers" like the many they deride.

 

BUT I still feel this has nothing to do with the 3m rule. I will concede though that people who do not have much experience with piking may be tempted to copy tactics used by those who do and not practice them properly but that can (once again) be said about anything.

 

I also concede that despite the fact I keep trying to separate the 3m rule from rod limits, inconsiderate anglers not restricting them selves when the water is busy etc it they are linked and (I feel) greatly contribute to peoples feelings towards the issue.

[Dick Dastardly]

Steve,

 

Maybe you'll enjoy this. At least you can add it to your sources if you wish.

 

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.157...263.1#tabModule

 

If the corrolation for catching small fish to "naturals" bait size is that certain why do sportsmen use small bait? Am I reading it correctly, heavy bleeding gill hooked or deep gullet hooked has a 75% mortality? I guess you would have to define "heavy and deep". Lures other than soft plastic and spoons and greater in size than 75mm have a 3% chance of causing a fatal injury (is that right?).

 

Phone

Sorry BUDGIE - off topic.

 

Not so sure about some of those findings Phone the studies I have carried out/been involved in showed that the mortality rate of even lure caught pike was a lot higher (I cant remember the figures will have to try and get all the information together again) The issue seemed to be that although baits (natural) were obviously more likely to be swallowed the simple fact that hooks on most lures were a lot bigger (and so penetrated deeper) they were just as responsible for fatalities.

 

Damage (visible damage) was certainly a lot higher with lures. As was "Instant" deaths.By that I mean there and then deaths as opposed to several days later.

 

Trouble it seems to me is that far to many pike anglers in general simply dont want to believe that they do kill a lot of what they catch (unintentional) they prefer to stick their heads in the sand and be "blissfully ignorant". I (no names no pack drill) had a very well known pike angler who is also scientifically qualified totally dismiss my theories and findings in public but in private told me I quote "Of course your right but dont rock the boat as guys dont want to hear this"! Maybe they dont want to hear/accept this but I cant help but feel if they did then maybe they would A) not be so "cavalier" in their attitude towards pike handling etc and not act so "superior" to us realists!

[Steve Burke]

Steve,

 

Maybe you'll enjoy this. At least you can add it to your sources if you wish.

 

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.157...263.1#tabModule

 

If the corrolation for catching small fish to "naturals" bait size is that certain why do sportsmen use small bait? Am I reading it correctly, heavy bleeding gill hooked or deep gullet hooked has a 75% mortality? I guess you would have to define "heavy and deep". Lures other than soft plastic and spoons and greater in size than 75mm have a 3% chance of causing a fatal injury (is that right?).

 

Phone

Sorry BUDGIE - off topic.

 

Fascinating, Phone. Many thanks for showing this link.

 

I've had time to only quickly scan the article, but I'd suggest all pike anglers read it.