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andy_youngs

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unnavigable to what? ship? barge? boat? canoe? raft? log? duck?

 

It really doesn't matter what you could float up or down a river, if it's not classified as navigable it's not legal to do so.

 

.............and although technically no-one owns the fish in a river you can be prosecuted for theft for nicking them.

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then why wasnt the vicar nor the scout field up the road ,the farm that organised canoeing lessons and the one below it who didnt give a fig ever taken to court? i can show you the canoes at the vicarage its pretty good evidence ,my son will testify he fixed them so he could use them free

why are these laws so hard and fast for those that dont want canoes on rivers but everyone else doesn't have any vested interest give a rats arse?

why isnt coppers knocking my door down right now i admit i canoed the river for many miles and will testify in court id did ? because no-one but a few greedy anglers wanting their "own river" gives a crap ,the greedy anglers think because the spend a few quid they have sole right to the rivers ,they are in fact just ignorent greedy anglers spoiling other people recreation

while you at it get the village coucil up before the beak the raft race organisers and those charities that profit from it ,after all the law is the law in your eyes

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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It really doesn't matter what you could float up or down a river, if it's not classified as navigable it's not legal to do so.

 

.............and although technically no-one owns the fish in a river you can be prosecuted for theft for nicking them.

 

why do the EA do it then ,above the law? in both matters

i guess the subject will never be put to bed there's just as many blinkered anglers as canoeists ,its a shame life has these problems its short enough as it is

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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Splendid defence Chesters, well done .... support from an unexpected quarter.

 

I think what's happenning here is that a nest of vipers has been spitting venom at you, bacause they feel vulnerable and it's their last line of defence before having to deal with the horrific consequences of canoeists and kayakers navigating the Wensum and the Hampshire Avon.

 

Because my original intention behind this thread was specifically about these two rivers. And the barbel fishermen don't like it. But rather than reply honestly to my request to disclose the barbel stocking history of the Hampshire Avon, which is what sparked the whole thing off, they have instead chosen to try and marginalise and ridicule both of us.

 

Don't worry about it mate, I'm sure the truth is abundantly obvious to the masses.

 

Andy

Edited by andy_youngs

never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

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OK, I will make a freedom of information request to find out the barbel stocking history of the Hampshire Avon. I'd like to know whether these stocks have really been "self sustaining" over the last 100 years.

 

I would have hoped that in this day and age you should be able to just punch a button on a Govt website, and hey presto, the records appear. After all, if you don't know the stocking history of a river, then you really can't make a balanced judgement about whether the river should continue to be stocked in the future.

 

I'm sure that the Environment Agency have meticulous records about all the stocking that they undertake, including the barbel stocking on the Hampshire Avon. They just don't publish this information as a matter of course. You have to ask for it, so that's what I'm doing ...

Edited by andy_youngs

never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

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Splendid defence Chesters, well done .... support from an unexpected quarter.

 

I think what's happenning here is that a nest of vipers has been spitting venom at you, bacause they feel vulnerable and it's their last line of defence before having to deal with the horrific consequences of canoeists and kayakers navigating the Wensum and the Hampshire Avon.

 

Because my original intention behind this thread was specifically about these two rivers. And the barbel fishermen don't like it. But rather than reply honestly to my request to disclose the barbel stocking history of the Hampshire Avon, which is what sparked the whole thing off, they have instead chosen to try and marginalise and ridicule both of us.

 

Don't worry about it mate, I'm sure the truth is abundantly obvious to the masses.

 

Andy

 

What defence? :rolleyes:

 

We've got a closet anarchist who uses the very powers he despises and his only defence to terminal ignorance is that the Vicar done it so it must be OK!

 

Forget the barbel stocking issue. That is a sideshow. The big issue is that you cannot lawfully paddle your canoes down most rivers and until you get the law changed that will remain so.

Regards, Clive

 

 

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are you talking about commercial navigability?

if no-one owns rivers who can say who goes on them ,a landowner as you know only owns the land beneath the river not the river itself otherwise the EA would have to apply for permission to go along it and i know from experience they do not ,is the EA above the law ,is there a law at all or just a notion you cannot ,as they say in america about personal taxation "show me the law" :D

we live in a jurisdiction which is roughly every thing is legal unless its stated as not legal ,show me the law in writing that say i chesters1 cannot canoe 5 miles upstream until i run out of water depth and turn back

obviously Paul Heiney had little trouble as i did in his escapades

 

The law is as I stated it; if you doubt me go and see a solicitor. Navigability means just that- it is not confined to big boats or little ones but is a classification of the river.All tidal rivers are navigable as of right.But it is not illegal in a criminal sense to canoe where you should not. It is trespass but that is not a criminal matter- it gives the landowner rights to remove you but unless you are doing something bad like poaching or attempting to nick stuff it is not illegal. The Agency have stautory rights to enable them to carry out their functions. There is not a law re canoeing in the sense that we have a big book of laws covering everything- in the UK we have statute law- written down- Acts of Parliament and Regs made under them and common law - not codified in the same way as Acts are but part of the law and developed by the courts over the years. Buy a law book if this stuff interests you- you might learn something useful

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While you're at it, see if you can get some info on the roach stocking on the Avon, if sustainability of various species is the real issue here - or does it only become an issue when you have a run-in with an irate roach angler?

 

EDIT: you can start your research here: http://www.avonroachproject.co.uk/

Edited by Anderoo

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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All,

 

For fun!!! What is a "river"? In America in includes the dry land to the flooded high water mark. Canoes have a right to portage on "private property" if it includes the flood plain.

 

Certainly, I would never ever stir the pot.

 

Phone

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The law is as I stated it; if you doubt me go and see a solicitor. Navigability means just that- it is not confined to big boats or little ones but is a classification of the river.All tidal rivers are navigable as of right.But it is not illegal in a criminal sense to canoe where you should not. It is trespass but that is not a criminal matter- it gives the landowner rights to remove you but unless you are doing something bad like poaching or attempting to nick stuff it is not illegal. The Agency have stautory rights to enable them to carry out their functions. There is not a law re canoeing in the sense that we have a big book of laws covering everything- in the UK we have statute law- written down- Acts of Parliament and Regs made under them and common law - not codified in the same way as Acts are but part of the law and developed by the courts over the years. Buy a law book if this stuff interests you- you might learn something useful

 

exactly what i said just more elequently.

i suspect "navigable" rivers have to be maintained to remain so so making most of the rivers "non navigable" not a statement of fact but more of financial get out clause.

 

as to the statement elsewhere to put a canoe in a unnavigable river is nothing but illegal is ridiculous paul heiny did a complete series on canoeing from rivers sources and sportsman put a picture up of an undoubtedly unnavigable bit of river.

 

good series some should store their bile and watch it if it comes back on the TV ,scroll down the page to see the rivers canoed

http://www.g-vis.co.uk/acatalog/secret_rivers.html

 

is he in the nick despite this damming evidence ,ofcourse not its only a few greedy blinkered anglers and a few toffs that gives a crap who goes on a river

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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