Deadbaiting Archie Braddock style

[BoozleBear]

BUDGIE:

As a pike angler for over 35 years I would reccomend ignoring anything AB says about Pike! If you like doubles then fine as long as you are happy with them,but dont write trebles off,they have been around for a long time.

 

You can have a pike swallow any type of hook just learn to deal with it whilst obviously avoiding it best you can.

That's a very, very good point.

[Dick Dastardly]

I always use a wire trace for lure fishing as I have had the occaisional fish engulf a lure or roll up the trace but would have to conceede that these are rare ocurrances and I most likely didnt need a trace for litterally thousands of other lure caught pike.However I have never found using a trace to put pike off so if it saves even one out of god knows how many I am happier to do so.With the use of baits though as AB reccomends the use of braid rather than wire is madness.Yes we have all had pike hooked in the scissors where a trace would not have been neede but regardless of how you rig up,how you detect yout takes or how soon you strike the majority of times your gear is going to be inside the mouth.

 

Right Ive got to say this,sorry but its the way I see this (and for that matter a lot of other strange things in angling)I am no expert angler,I am not particularly clever,in fact I have always been a bit slow on the up take of many things.How ever when you do some thing enough it eventually sinks in what the score is.I often read things written by "experts" that practical experience over many years and the "shared" experiences of other equally (and some times more)experienced anglers tells me is complete rubbish and therefore can not be based on "long term" experience.Prime examples of this are AB's use of braid for pike(why would he think that it would be an advantage any way?)and a recent good example Steve Broad writting in the AT sugesting super glueing spliced joints in leadcore (for those of you who dont use splicing,the whole thing works by the material constricting under pressure,if you glue it it cant constrict and just fails)once again obviously no long term experience of it.Also the big danger is that people understandabley read this stuff and think its the way to do it after all the guy writes in the mags!The biggest problem with angling is the problem of actually determining "ability" or for the lack of a better word "expert" status.I dont think you can base it on fish caught so much these days.I dont know what you can really judge it on.BUT just because you write,make bait/tackle been on the box doesnt always mean you know what your going on about.Also a lot of these people are beyond a bit of advice or should I say being questioned by us unknowns.Even more sadly a lot of newcomers to angling also question our right to doubt.....

 

But does it matter if Archie kills a few pike when they bite through his braid? does it matter if Steve's leadcore splices give way leaving a rig,or worst still cracking off on the cast?(in all fairness he may prepare his splices differently but the way he wrote it would cause anyone who followed it to have problems)

 

No I suppose that in the big scale of things it wouldnt be the end of the world (unless you got hit by a flying 3oz lead that is )

 

The real issue is the many ,many other people who will follow this "advice" go out and lose (with pike lose=kill)fish.Having to learn the hard way.A very irresponsible attitude from these so called experts.A responsibility they should automaticly take on when they adopt their "expert" status. :mad:

[argyll]

...ah lead core, Grafham and splices. We could start a whole new debate on that subject Budgie.

 

I dont think we disagree over aspects of Archie Braddocks rigs, particularly on the use of braid and before we go any further I must point out that both the rigs I use myself and the rigs that I made and supplied to Pangolin are fitted on longish 30lb titanium traces, not braid and unless they had proved to be problem free for me (and the fish) I would not have supplied or suggested them to anyone else. They've had a lengthy trial this year and whilst piking on my river during the warmer weather was abysmal these rigs have nevertheless proved to be every bit as effective as two trebles and much easier on me and the fish. Putting braid into perspective, it's clearly more viable than mono as trace material since in spite of its lack of abrasion resistance it doesnt 'cut' as easy as mono. Thats why most of us have special braid blades. That however doesn't in itself make it a good trace material. I believe the ideal pike trace material is yet to be invented. It will probably be a material with the properties of titanium and the knotting ability of braid. Eventually it will appear but in the meantime, wire, whatever its composition is the safest for pike.

[Dick Dastardly]

As often Gerry I agree with your views.Regarding singles or doubles I have tried them and some years ago at that.They werent for me but I have no problem with them in general its a personal choice.My only problem is when they are "re discovered" and pushed as the way forward degregating (is that the right word?) the use of trebles.Or if people think that their use is an alternative to using sound striking techniques and learning good unhooking skills.The "transitional" rigs you mentioned have also been around for some time the "uni rig" for example.Yes I am set in my ways I admit but I will always look at some thing that is truely new and use the tried and tested as the bench mark to judge it against.

Re ignoring anything AB says.The fact that he has pushed something with so much conviction that to me is so totally wrong ie the braid v wire I find it very hard to have any faith that anything else he says (especially if I have no experience of the subject) is based on fact/experience or just a whim!

[argyll]

Fair enough Budgie. I deliberately set out not to be too harsh on trebles, anyway I still use them. Whilst they're not first choice, I accept that they are other peoples ideal rig. But I've spent too much time staring into a pikes gob at the mass of broken off tracery you sometimes find stuck there, to change my own views.

[Dick Dastardly]

argyll:

But I've spent too much time staring into a pikes gob at the mass of broken off tracery you sometimes find stuck there, to change my own views.

I know what you mean mate but this underlines my point well,its not the hooks be they treble,single,double or whatever thats to blame here though is it?

[Peter Waller]

Pikers are generally comfortable using trebles, they work, why change now?

 

The more I use single circle hooks the more convinced I am that trebles are unnescessary. But that said, a small treble, as used by most pikers, is still pretty good. What I like about circle hooks is that they catch in the scissors more often than not.

[Russell Fitzpatrick]

having seen that very article "the ultimate pike rig" one in CAT, maybeit does work better than wire but safer?>>>>no!

 

i have used both doublles and trebels and find them both good enough but funny enough i use two gtrebels all the time(one with lip hooked lives).they are much better for those not experienced with unhooking pike.as they can be removed that little bit quicker.

['eelfisher']

Dear ALL

 

Not gonna get into every nook and cranny here on this issue of pike fishing and differing material and hook use......but.......

 

Budgie speaks not just 'sense' but 'absolute sense'.

 

Wire is the material for pike 'bait' fishing.

 

I do not spin, plug or jerk......so cannot in all honesty comment here but would listen to any advice Budgie put forward on the matter.

 

AB is a 'superstar'......in whose eyes?......not mine when it comes to piking thats for sure.

 

Wire does not detract from the presentation and catching of pike......other materials are not up for comparison.

 

Use wire.......choose whatever hook you like.

 

Some thoughts.....

Pike are fierce, pike are explosive, pike are awesomely scarey to some.

 

A fact.......

Pike are fragile fish.

 

Strike early, unhook quickly, photo quickly and return with absolute care....they are not indestructable.

 

Yours With Respect.....

Steve.

[Pangolin]

I'm surprised by some of the responses on here, regarding the continued use of treble hooks, along the lines of 'they work, so why change?' I don't dispute that, in the hands (not literally) of an expert pike angler, treble hooks need not damage the pike. Peter waller, however, states that more and more of the fish he catches have somebody elses snap-tackle stuck in their throats. I'd argue that the most likely reason for this is not 'crack offs', but inexperienced anglers who cut their lines, rather than have to face the prospect of removing treble hooks from the throats of the pike that have swallowed their deadbaits. Let's move away from the world if experienced pike anglers and consider, instead, teenaged Johnny Angler, who decides that it would be an exciting challenge to pursue the fearsome pike. What advice is Johnny going to be given at the tackle shop? 'Here, lad: you need one of these snap-tackles to put your bait on, a wire trace, a pike float (or whatever). Now Johnny follows the advice and, not believing he is going to get a run, leaves his rod with little attention until he realises a pike is well and truly hooked. Oh dear, even a small pike has a mouth that you'd not want to put your hand inside! Johnny has his 6" forceps and a pair of scissors on him and, in desperation, decides on the latter as the best way to release the fish. What I'm arguing is that had the accepted norm been the double hook (and only one of them)even Johnny might have managed a clean extraction. Specialist and expert anglers will always have favourite rigs and, if they can use them successfully, why not? But should such tackle be sold, ready made-up, to the novice? Should books and shops be telling would-be pike anglers that this is the stuff they must use, when it isn't? When I was a teenager, I equipped myself to catch pike, including buying a gaff, a gag and numerous snap-tackles of the Jardine design. Now I know that none of these things were actually the best things for me to buy at that time. Fortunately my early pike successes were all with lures, which are a completely different argument, because pike very rarely swallow a lure whole.