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A New Centrepin from OKUMA


PeterNE1

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the nottingham cast /nottingham style of casting is from the spool ,meaning the line too be cast is drawn from the spool ,unlike other casts favoured in victorian times ,like the sheffield style or themes cast

 

the nottingham cast went through verious stages of devellopment ,bickerdyke describes the static nottingham cast where you take a single loop from between the spool and first ring creating a triangle ,that you can swing from the side then let the loop go as you near your targets direction ,thats the basic cast (still used by kids around here even with fixed spool reels ,as its the easiest too learn) ,he goes on too describe how taking sucessive loops up the rod to gain distance .

 

there is another veriation where the loops are taken from between the rings above the first one and none from the spool ,its also how john ,wilson does it .this is the loop cast (as no line is drawn from the spool ,so its not a nottingham cast in the true sense of the word

 

william bailey took the basic single loop cast and simply added the line pull and become the casting champion of all england and created the dynamic nottingham style (it doesn't matter wether you pull the line or slap the rim too start it spinning ,its the spinning spool that counts) ,this is the veriation that wallis took and refined it ,adding bits of a slingshot cast onto the beginning (where you grip the weight) and a couple of touches too tidy up the cast ,and a bit of practice too get it right

 

none are particularly differcult to learn or master (despite some myths that get passed around) ,all you need is patiance and practice .

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Chavender
I try to be funny... but sometimes I merely look it! hello.gif Steve

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the nottingham cast /nottingham style of casting is from the spool ,meaning the line too be cast is drawn from the spool ,unlike other casts favoured in victorian times ,like the sheffield style or themes cast

 

the nottingham cast went through verious stages of devellopment ,bickerdyke describes the static nottingham cast where you take a single loop from between the spool and first ring creating a triangle ,that you can swing from the side then let the loop go as you near your targets direction ,thats the basic cast (still used by kids around here even with fixed spool reels ,as its the easiest too learn) ,he goes on too describe how taking sucessive loops up the rod to gain distance .

 

 

 

william bailey took the basic single loop cast and simply added the line pull and become the casting champion of all england and created the dynamic nottingham style (it doesn't matter wether you pull the line or slap the rim too start it spinning ,its the spinning spool that counts) ,this is the veriation that wallis took and refined it ,adding bits of a slingshot cast onto the beginning (where you grip the weight) and a couple of touches too tidy up the cast ,and a bit of practice too get it right

 

none are particularly differcult to learn or master (despite some myths that get passed around) ,all you need is patiance and practice .

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up Steve. "Sheffield style" was the other name that elluded me!

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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We seem to have almost entirely contradictory experiences here, of line twist caused (or not!) by this kind of reel. :rolleyes:

Perhaps it simply comes down to the way we are using the reels.

 

Has to be the only logical answer.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Thanks for clearing that up Steve. "Sheffield style" was the other name that elluded me!

 

I wasn't aware that the 'Loop Cast' could be confused with the Nottingham or Sheffield cast. It seems that there is no definitive modern answer. Looking back at various threads it seems things have become confused. Here's an example from another place:

 

Mick G

 

Have a look at Waterlog number 45. "The Wallis Cast".

In his (intentionally?) incomplete piece, Mr Skinner mentions both the Nottingham and Sheffield casts, and shrugs them off as red herrings.

However, I was taught the Sheffield cast in the late 1950s by George Bear of Downham Market, who was a part time bailiff on the local Sheffield and District waters, including the Middle Level, the Wissey and the Great Ouse.

It cannot be done unless the rod is fitted with High Bells rings,as all 4 fingers and the thumb have to pass between rod and line to collect a loop of line. Experts could collect two sets of loops which doubled their casting range, but as I recall, I never got beyond 6 loops.

So, two equally valid reasons for High Bells rings, to prevent a thin wet line sticking to the rod,and to allow line to be easily picked up to cast. But I have no idea which came first !!!

 

 

gloucesteroldspot

 

That's interesting - I have always thought that the cast you describe was known as the Nottingham cast. The original Sheffield cast was slightly different insomuch as just one (albeit larger) loop of line was taken between the reel and butt ring; the terminal tackle was then flicked behind quite briskly before the rod was brought smartly forward to propel the terminal tackle out over the water, the momentum drawing the loop out behind it. This cast is not disimilar to the method of casting a fly; it appears to have evolved to cope with the extremely light and delicate float tackle commonly used by anglers from the Sheffield area, fishing predominantly slow-flowing drains, fens and canals. The Nottingham cast is rather easier to perform; as the tackle used on the Trent was somewhat heavier to cope with teh extra current, no more complex cast was necessary to achieve the required distance.

 

I think confusion arises between these two fairly distinct casting methods where a hybrid style was developed to suit local conditions. As Mick has had first-hand experience of being taught what was recognised as the Sheffield style, this seems to go some way to proving how the two methods became amalgamated for practical reasons.

 

Anyone who wants to learn more about the regional variations and their evolution could do a lot worse than get hold of a copy of 'Fine Angling for Coarse Fish' published by the Lonsdale Library, which describes the Nottingham style in detail, as well as including a lengthy passage on the then new Sheffield style. This book also has a chapter by F.W.K Wallis on the method of casting from a revolving drum reel which is now known by his name; to confuse things further he refers to it as 'The Modern Light Float Cast From the Reel - Nottingham Style'! There is also something resembling a description of the original Sheffield style in 'Mr Crabtree Goes Fishing', although if the great Mr Venables' idea of the Wallis cast is anything to go by, this is probably best not attempted at home!

 

I didn't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with high bells rings. For float fishing rods they are ideal, and as Mick says, it is more difficult (but not by any means impossible) to pick up the line between the rod rings if these are of the bridge variety; my chief complaint is with the modern large diameter rings fitted almost universally to spinning, carp, pike and other so-called specimen rods which are subjected to much greater strains in use.

 

Clear as mud!

 

Some Sheffield anglers fishing the Lincolnshire drains circa 1920's onwards used very lightly shotted small quill floats that they cast in the same way a fly-caster would; i.e. casting the tackle back and using its pull on the rod to catapult it forward in one or more cycles. In those days and right through to the 1980's hundreds of anglers would leave Sheffield each weekend by coach and train to fish matches in Lincolnshire. That is what I have always known as the Sheffield Cast. It was about the only way to cast a small quill float any distance and was shown to me by club anglers fishing the Witham.

 

Those who fished the Trent in the same era tended to use heavier floats and shot that could be controlled in the powerful flow. This tackle could be cast off the reel without pulling any line through the loops. The reel was started by a pull of the line between the reel and first ring or by batting the reel dependent on preference. It is similar to how a game fisher would cast a spinner using a centrpin reel. I have always known that as the Nottingham Cast, but I never really mastered it until I used a Wallis adaptation - no weight release but using a loop of line to start the reel spinning.

 

The Loop Cast was the first cast I ever did and have always known it by that name.

 

There is also another type of cast that you didn't mention; With a 1 ounce weight or heavier as is the fashion these days for bolt rigs, you can cast straight off the reel without pulling the line or spinning the reel. Just by releasing the spool if the reel is sufficiently smooth running enough. You have around 7 or 8 feet of line out from tip ring to weight, swing it back like a pendulum and then bring it through on the power stroke so the weight passes under the height of the rod tip and release the spool as the weight comes through. It's a bit like beachcasting but an underhand lob rather than over the top. I use a similar method of casting with the multiplier and plugs.

 

Using a 45g weight and a 1.5 lb tc rod I can usually get about twenty five to thirty yards even allowing for feathering the spool to prevent tangles on the end rig. The advantage of this cast over the Wallis is two-fold; Firstly you don't have to master the tricky part of releasing the weight and getting the reel spin to match the speed of the lead. So less chance of tangles with over run or snap off when the spool stops or the line becomes tangled. Secondly you don't need as much clear space around you as you do with the Wallis cast. It is dead easy to learn; All you need is a soft action avon rod around 11 - 12 feet long, a 30g to 45g weight and a free running reel. Once you've mastered the cast you can adapt the method to suit any rod and weight combination.

Edited by Nicepix

Regards, Clive

 

 

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the reel trouble is that after two world wars ,a lot was lost with those who didn't make it back ,and then afterwoods different styles of casting became intermingled and idestinguishable .

 

take the two styles of loop cast ,the nottingham (static) cast mostly only used one or two loops and the force of the cast is applied through the whist & forearm not the rod ,the rod acting as a extenion of the forearm ,and the other loopcast (origins might of been sheffield but could be from elseware or simply a curruption of the nottingham cast ,but reportedly practiced by some sheffield anglers) where line is drawn from up the rod between the rings (2-6) the force is applied through the rod as you flick the rod forwards, it should pull the loops off your fingertips .its the motion of the rod that propels the line ,but it seems these two differing styles have simply merged into a common cast which is known as the nottingham cast .

 

likewise the nottingham cast is confused with casting in the nottingham style iE wallis /whally casts (not strictly a nottingham cast as it involves spinning the spool ,but mearly veriation on the theme ) ,where line is cast off the spool ,drawn from the spool & the force/action applied through the whist/forearm holding the reel&rod ,theres several veriations on how this is achieved ,very few do it as wallis did most people just find what works for them

 

the sheffield stlyle is too use the rod too prepel light lines and tackle (where the drop line is laid in the water then picked up & back ,and then thrust outwards) It and the themes cast (where coils of line are held or drapped on the floor) then the rod flicked forwards to propel the lines out ,both owe more to flycasting .infact if you combine the two actions you have the basic flycast.

 

things ,it appears where a lot less confusing before WWII ,people had there way or style of casting and stuck too it mostley ,in fact quite religiously for some to the point of being very dismissive of all other ways (one writer of the day completly rubbished the nottingham style of fishing/and casting ,probably because he couldn't master it) ,nowadays we all fish mostley a mixture of both the nottingham style and the sheffield styles ,with a touch of the norfolk style thrown in .i guess as tackle improves the lines between the styles overlapped & diluted the differences .

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Chavender
I try to be funny... but sometimes I merely look it! hello.gif Steve

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I don't think that the confusion can be easily untangled. John Wilson describes the Nottingham Style cast as drawing one or more loops through the rings whilst the Fishing Museum Online has the following advice:

 

Until the last few years of nineteenth century, "spinning" meant fishing with a dead bait mounted on a flight and there were two different ways of doing it, "Thames" or "Southern" style and "Nottingham" style. The most obvious difference between the two methods was that the northern anglers cast directly from the reel, while the Thames anglers stripped line from the reel before making their cast and then shot it in much the same way as a modern fly fisherman shoots line from coils laid on the ground, or held in his hand. The style of retrieval differed between the two methods, with the Thames men retrieving line by hand and the northern fishermen winding in using the reel. Although most spin fishermen standardised on a twelve foot rod, if you fished Nottingham style, you would normally have settled for a wooden reel without a check, while the Thames men used a metal reel with a check. Another difference was that Thames fishing was done with conventional silk lines, while the Nottingham method required the use of a much finer 'Derby twist' silk running line, scarcely thicker than cotton, according to J. W. Martin. The Nottingham reel therefore has a valid claim to be the first wide-arbour design.

 

I doubt that many will confuse the Macintosh cast though. That was written about by carp anglers in the 1950's and involved laying a coat on the ground, pulling loops of line from the reel and laying them on the coat, inverting the loops and casting so as the loops ran out through the rings. Yeah, right. What could possibly go wrong?

Regards, Clive

 

 

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Its important (well I think so) that stuff like this isnt forgot/confussed.So much can be lost.Look at the confussion that the misuse of terms in modern day angling causes.

 

 

i think its inevitable ,that whats gone before is forgotten ,its human nature to forget things as we progress and evolve things to the point things often go full circle .things get invented ,then forgotton ,then re-invented in some form or other ,theres very few things in angling ,thats not been done before ,people just think trends and methods are new ,because no one remembers it from before so its new too us .not everything is recycled though so things do get lost through time and some things get mearged and both parent ways are lost in favour of the new generation ,we are forever looking for improvements and better ways of doing things ,how many modern (??) practices will survive the test of time ,for its only the strong that survive over time ,and time again.

 

some methods and casting styles are well documented in the late 1800's and early 20th century,but others have all ready dissapeared

 

the northern/sheffield style ,evolved into stickfloat fishing ,sheffield style of casting evolved into the modern overhead cast

 

the northern /nottingham style well pretty much have stayed the same ,but the methods of casting pretty much died out with the invention of the fixed spooled ,open faced threadline reels ,but with the re-imergance of the centrepin in the 80's/90's the nottingham casting styles has made a comeback

 

the southern themes style ,was pretty much gone by WWI as the nottingham & sheffield styles dominated ,only eliments survive /re-invented as ledgering techniques etc and some float fishing practices.

 

the southern norfolk style again had allbut dissapeared in victorian times,but eliments reinvented as part of modern techinques like waggler fishing ,not much is writen about this style as it was dying out ,but the cast survived (wallis added it too the front of baileys cast ) used for flicking out stickfloats with open faced reels ,and the re-imergance of using long rods 14ft+ and the use of bottom end only floats was reinvented as waggler fishing and whip fishing ,their use of the winch like the themes style evovled into the multiplier & baitcasters of today

 

west midlands style & techniques seem to have dissapeared by early victorian times or perhaps they just used a mixture of the two northen styles

 

eliments of all the old styles have since WWII have diverged and evolved into how we fish today ,mostly a mixture of nottingham & sheffiled styles with eliments from the southern styles shoehorned in

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Chavender
I try to be funny... but sometimes I merely look it! hello.gif Steve

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Just to muddy the waters a little :D

A couple of years back I was fishing on the Poland / Ukraine border, and was offered a days 'guidance' by a friend of a friend in the equivalent of the local pub :-) ... I assumed that it would be very much more of a nudge in the right direction for locations rather than anything else - I was lure fishing wherever possible.

A couple of days later we met up, and this guy showed me some incredible sport with both pike and catfish up to low doubles - we were both lure fishing ... but this guy was casting straight off a centre pin reel (of Russian origin!), with an action very similar to that used with a baitcaster, even with light lures.

What was even more impressive was that he could cast to anywhere that I could, and I was using a fixed spool reel! ... apparently, this method of casting / fishing is quite normal across Eastern Europe and into what was Russia!

I'm STILL trying to get my hands on one of the reels, which are unfortunately no longer manufactured - they were beautifully made, and extremely lightweight too, which came as quite a surprise, as I always associated Russian manufacture with being just a little rustic / industrial :D

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