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The big river roach of the past


Anderoo

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I think that may depend on where the weed is that the roach spawn on. On the Ribble and most spate rivers often the only weed i see is the streemer weed that grows on the gravel.

 

Roach will also use the root systems of bankside trees and flooded marginal vegetation (obviously on the Ribble that wouldn't be the best strategy given how quickly it drops off). Woody debris might be another option but I can't find a reference to confirm this.

 

I think you should do the sporting thing Ian and put one of your Normarks up against his hardy's. :)

No rush Latimeria, I don't think you have a time scale. Play your cards right and you could end up with a Normark to grow your beans up. :lol:

 

That's what I've been waiting for but no-one seems to want to accept my wager...

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On our local rivers the roach's preferred spawning habitat ois willow moss which grows on willow roots, bridges and bank piling (recorded by FBA, various studies).

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On our local rivers the roach's preferred spawning habitat ois willow moss which grows on willow roots, bridges and bank piling (recorded by FBA, various studies).

 

With the Ribble being a spate river with periodic (frequent!) high-energy water flows, Fontinalis doesn't grow to the same extent. It is present, but the extreme changes in water level and turbidity along with a highly mobile substrate don't allow the same thick growths I've seen on them soft southern rivers. Aquatic mosses don't appear to cope that well either with being choked during low Summer levels with the filamentous algae that results from United Utilities using the river as an easy dumping ground for part-treated sewage. After the ice-ups of the past couple of years I noticed some large patches of moss (might actually be Clinclidotus, a similar species that's more resistant to dessication), that could have been used for spawning, had been virtually stripped away once the thaw came. In such a dynamic river, when you take into account changing weather patterns, there's a potential for things to get unusual.

You up for the wager then?

 

I'll also add that the presence of these anomalous forms in any numbers is a recent phenomenon to my knowledge, I started noticing them before I heard of the larger individuals being caught further upstream, so the idea that I (and others) have started suffering some hybrid-oriented mass hysteria, or that we've been catching individuals from a polymorphic population of chub for years without realising it, doesn't fit.

Come up and catch some for yourself, we'll be nice to you.

Maybe.

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With the Ribble being a spate river with periodic (frequent!) high-energy water flows, Fontinalis doesn't grow to the same extent. It is present, but the extreme changes in water level and turbidity along with a highly mobile substrate don't allow the same thick growths I've seen on them soft southern rivers. Aquatic mosses don't appear to cope that well either with being choked during low Summer levels with the filamentous algae that results from United Utilities using the river as an easy dumping ground for part-treated sewage. After the ice-ups of the past couple of years I noticed some large patches of moss (might actually be Clinclidotus, a similar species that's more resistant to dessication), that could have been used for spawning, had been virtually stripped away once the thaw came. In such a dynamic river, when you take into account changing weather patterns, there's a potential for things to get unusual.

You up for the wager then?

 

I'll also add that the presence of these anomalous forms in any numbers is a recent phenomenon to my knowledge, I started noticing them before I heard of the larger individuals being caught further upstream, so the idea that I (and others) have started suffering some hybrid-oriented mass hysteria, or that we've been catching individuals from a polymorphic population of chub for years without realising it, doesn't fit.

Come up and catch some for yourself, we'll be nice to you.

Maybe.

 

Our soft southern rivers have turned into spate rivers - see today's papers! The saturated ground from this year's exceptional rainfall is causing very fast runoffs in Dorset and Devon. This week just .66 inch of rain Wednesday evening brought the upper Stour a 6ft flood yesterday (it's a small river so that's a biggish flood though 2012 highest is 12ft, record is 14ft - all towns under water) that had largely run off today. It isn't meant to behave like that but the ground won't soak up any more. Normally that amount of rain would produce a foot of floodwater that would be much slower to get in and run off.

 

As for the chub x roach of the Ribble; I'd like to see much better photos to make a call that isn't a guess which is why all bets are off. Hybrids occur where at least three things are present - two species that can hybridise, degraded spawning habitat for whatever reason (can also be natural circumstances like large loughs where the fish tend to spawn in feeder brooks), and a weather event that delays or brings forward spawning for one of the contributory species. This last one is why it's rarer for there to be hybrids every year. On one local pond all the roach x rudd hybrids were of one year-class whereas roach and rudd were present at all sizes.

 

This brings us back to the starting point. All species, over decades, can rise and fall. Pollution, disease, predation have all changed fish populations. Locally in Dorset salmon were at an all time low in the 1870s then made a strong comeback when the nets were bought off and did well for nearly a 100 years yet now in terminal decline. In 1975 who would have predicted the perch boom, or that barbel river records of 15-19lb would one day be common, or that 6, 7 and 8lb chub would show in abundance. Maybe in 30 years time the big roach will return? In the meantime I hope to have a few more good days on the Stour and Thames.

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Gozzer,

 

Let me guess. Looks like it could be England.

 

Phone

 

Not completely right Phone, but pretty close. :P

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Since we are on about big roach of the past, who knows where this iconic place is?

 

dorset2012440.jpg

 

 

John.

Its a cold looking stream John. :)

 

Have you ever fished it? Ive heard it still has some good roach.

 

A tiger does not lose sleep over the opinion of sheep

 

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Its a cold looking stream John. :)

 

Have you ever fished it? Ive heard it still has some good roach.

 

Never fished it Brian, in fact that's the first time I've seen the place. We were in the area so I just had to call in.

 

The river was up with some colour, but a stretch just above the bridge screamed roach, and I wished I was fishing. It formed a big back eddy with hardly any 'boiling', so a clear enough bottom. I was imagining a float just riding on the edge of the crease, and steadily sliding under, then striking into a big roach. My wife woke me from my daydream saying we were getting soaked and could we move on. Still it was nice to dream for a while. :D

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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