live baiting for perch

[gozzer]

To sum up I made my choice a long time ago and I’m quite happy that live baiting is a perfectly acceptable tactic and no crueller (if cruel at all) than any other angling. For people who aren’t happy to do it then fine that is your choice and I would never pressure you to do so. In these days of the antis growing campaign to get angling banned full stop I feel that all anglers regardless of their personal views on live baiting should stick together and make no concessions to them at all. Like I said what is the difference between casting out and hooking a fish and hooking a fish and casting it out? I’m sure the antis won’t see any.

 

Your summing up does 'sum' it up for me Budgie.

 

So long as the method is legal and you are at ease with it, then that's all that matters.

We have often said on here that the biggest danger to angling will come from anglers themselves, and I still believe that.

If a person is not comfortable fishing a certain way, or with a certain bait then the answer is easy, Don't Do It. But don't try to stop others that are comfortable with it, from doing it.

People from outside angling are only too willing to fill that role.

 

John.

[Guest Rabbit]

Budgie you make some good points and I know you are a good all round angler. As far as education for aspiring pike anglers i would go along with that, for what I have seen in our sport it seems the pike is the most at risk from some that fish for them. i have witnessed so called anglers throwing pike dart fashion from a high bank so not to get his trainers dirty. Of course he got an ear bashing from rabbit but it seems pike attract the wrong sort, perhaps the pike's status as being a top pred is the reason.

i am not anti anything but even the most blinkered will agree that live baiting is a an issue that divides many anglers. my point is that lures have come along way in the last few years and there is no real need to live bait, that is how many anglers see it and would not return to live baiting for what ever reason.

Come to think of it last Autumn I watched a pike match near here, the guys that wobbled dead's returned some good weights and told me it was a great method, no one was live baiting BTW, perhaps they had their own restrictions.

[Emma two]

Unfortunetely some of us 'serious predator anglers' have had the choice taken away from us by legislation, the lake District waters had a live bait ban on them. It wasn't imposed for ethical/anti-cruelty reasons, but rather to prevent the introduction of alien species which migh threaten some of our rare fish, specifically the Vendace. The problem may be traced back a few decades, when increased affluence, improved transport systems (the M6) and wider car ownership saw pike anglers traveling into the lake district, bringing with them livebait, and it seems that unused bait were released into the lakes when thay should have been taken home of killed. It does seem to be a case of shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted, for example on my local water the Vendace has been declared extinct, yet we now see a huge Roach population, dace topping all over on summer evenings, an it now conatains bream, chub and ruffle. For years the species list was game fish, pike perch and eels. the decreasing pike population (in both in numbers and in individual fish size) is the subject of research by Lancaster University. At this stage it seems for likely that increased nutrients are the problem rather than the disruption of the eco system by introduced 'foreign' species. However my point is, that livebaiting is potentially problematic when baits are transferred from one water to another, with the potential to upset the balance and to spread disease.

 

The livebait ban had totally transformed our lake fishing, (the rivers reqire a wholly different approach) in some ways this has been good, I have learned how to cast with a low profile multiplier and to use braid, the only mono I own now is for making up fly leaders. I have a larger range of lures, I consdider chest waders an essential, and one of those waistcoats which are like a soldiers 'vest webbing' so that I can carry all my gear with nothing in my hands but my rod. Being disinterested in the roach bream etc, (I have done the non-preditor stuff and even got right into match fishing for a few years) floats, single hooks, feeders, shot, keepnets, big seat boxes etc are practicaly redundant. We occasionally bait fish for perch with lobworms and break the rules by catching a few minnows in a trap (only using them in the same water we catch 'em). We are not allowed to use freshwater dead baits either, Carrying all the gear needed for bank bait fishing is physically too much for me, so the only bait fishing is done from the boat.

 

As someone pointed out, please don't knock livebaiting, it will only give the antis ammo, if you cant cope with sticking hooks in fish, then maybe angling isn't for you?

 

Use Live bait but please don't move fish from one water to another.

[Neil G]

Budgie you make some good points and I know you are a good all round angler. As far as education for aspiring pike anglers i would go along with that, for what I have seen in our sport it seems the pike is the most at risk from some that fish for them. i have witnessed so called anglers throwing pike dart fashion from a high bank so not to get his trainers dirty. Of course he got an ear bashing from rabbit but it seems pike attract the wrong sort, perhaps the pike's status as being a top pred is the reason.

i am not anti anything but even the most blinkered will agree that live baiting is a an issue that divides many anglers. my point is that lures have come along way in the last few years and there is no real need to live bait, that is how many anglers see it and would not return to live baiting for what ever reason.

Come to think of it last Autumn I watched a pike match near here, the guys that wobbled dead's returned some good weights and told me it was a great method, no one was live baiting BTW, perhaps they had their own restrictions.

 

I do agree to some degree about pike angling attracting the 'wrong sort', problem is there isn't enough pike to go around if you like in some places so it doesn't take long for the fishing to suffer.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Neil G

[Guest Rabbit]

As someone pointed out, please don't knock livebaiting, it will only give the antis ammo, if you cant cope with sticking hooks in fish, then maybe angling isn't for you?

 

 

 

Really? Then perhaps I will have to think about my next 50 years of fishing. Oh and as far as 'knocking' live baiting I am not but I am entitled to an opinion without condemning those that feel live baiting is not for them they should not be an angler, what self opinionated rubbish.... and stop playing the anti card, like I said a good number of anglers do not support live baiting, nothing to do with PETA antis, beardy weirdies, vegan, gays, or whatever just CHOICE!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are a nice looking lady, but it makes no difference it had to be said!!

Edited July 23, 2008 by Rabbit

[Dick Dastardly]

As I said earlier this is an often repeated topic.No doubt because it is a real issue. The recent bans on live baiting have certainly shown how delicate the future of it is.

 

The Scottish ban annoyed me the most as it was based (admited by the comitee themselves) on purely emotional reasons.

 

The Irish situation is also a bit hypocritical as they always seem to be whinning about the introduction of non indigenous fish yet beg for more carp!

 

Emmas post was spot on.At least (even if a bit to late) the bans there were based on taking a sensible precaution.

Ive said many times that it is a fact that no spread of disease or translocation of species has ever been proven to be down to pikers/pred anglers moving livebaits.But that said its still understandable to be concerned about the possibility of such.

 

I admit to pushing the rules on livebaiting to the very limit (in fact in some cases breaking them) I feel that I have enough knowledge to minimise the chance of causing any problems.................but it still bothers me and I find myself ever increasingly coming closer to toeing the line!

 

Yes there are certainly far more important issues with live baiting than the moral,emotive ones most often argued.

 

Rabbit, yes you are right on many waters and in many situations lures and wobbled baits can be very effective so its a fair argument that lives arnt "necessary" but then is any angling for sport necessary? As said before there are some venues I fish that for a good days sport (and on some the only way to get any sport if you want to bait fish) is to use them. Be better all round if this wasnt the case though.

 

I wasnt going to get involved in this disscusion as like I said its done a lot but the way its been conducted on here (as is often the case) has been so sensible that Ive had to! If all angling "problems" could be disscussed by anglers in general in the way a lot of contentious issues are on AN I think we would be a big step closer to true "Anglinbg unity" and that is the one thing IMO that anglings future full stop relies on.

[Anderoo]

on many waters and in many situations lures and wobbled baits can be very effective so its a fair argument that lives arnt "necessary" but then is any angling for sport necessary?

 

Nope!

 

Livebaiting isn't necessary, deadbaiting isn't necessary, float fishing for skimmers isn't necessary. On some occasions, though, if you want to catch some pike, only a livebait will do it. To those who went, remember the Wobblethon? OK, not the best example as pike were caught on wobbled deads and lures, but livebaiting caught fish instantly that had ignored all else. Also, try paternostering a wobbled dead or a lure next to a far bank snag.

 

On the other hand, I'm very uncomfortable about this 'you're either with us or against us' rhetoric - it sounds a bit 'US president' to me. Just because I'm an anger like all of you doesn't mean I share the same moral or ethical values. Of course it's a devisive issue, why do you think it's raised so often?

 

I'm in a slightly odd position because I do sometimes livebait but I'd be quite happy for a self-imposed blanket ban. I know I'm banging the same drum again ( ) but if there was ever a proper political campaign to ban angling outright, what picture would they put on the front of the leaflets? Livebaiting is our version of the monkey in the cage with wires in its brain.

 

Hooking a fish, landing it and releasing it unharmed is not the same as hooking a fish, casting it out and using it as bait. It just isn't. It doesn't matter what us anglers think of it. We exist in a little insular bubble, and if that bubble is ever popped, your arguments for livebaiting will look totally ignorant and archaic. The only opinions you should be worried about are those of the general public - voters - and how easily it is to influence their opinions via a proper anti-angling campaign.

 

In my opinion, many of fishing's problems come about because people aren't all-rounders any more. There are too many single-species anglers about who have to adapt to the prevailing conditions if they want to catch their fish of choice. In pike fishing terms, on many days that will mean using livebaits or blanking (no arguments against this please, it just will!). On the other hand, it may be perfect chub or perch fishing weather - put the pike rods away and fish for something else

 

It used to be that we assessed the weather and time of year and decided what species would give us the best chance of some sport, adapting to the conditions. Now 'we' have already chosen our species and have to try to catch them in often totally unsuitable conditions, while ignoring superb fishing for other, 'lesser', species. A bit sad, don't you think?

 

Sorry if is completely off topic

[Dick Dastardly]

Totally agree with what youve said mate. The differences between anglers,anti anglers and the general public are vast.Its because of this that different arguments work/dont work with the different sections.Since you first sugested that the real people we need to have on our side are the GP Ive been in total agreement.

 

That said its hard to work out what the best aproach is! "We dont harm the fish we just catch them and then put them back" isnt always as easily accepted by Joe as you would think! Many find the idea hard to both understand and justify.Some actually find the concept of catching fish and killing them to eat both easier to understand and accept! Er try looking at Germanys' Green Party.

 

With the livebaiting thing I find that most non anglers attribute human feelings etc to fish so whilst they can stomach fishing the idea of sticking a hook in a fish's back is abhorant to them!

 

All though I understand Tiggers " why should we be influenced/worried by what others think" this is really where Neils "discretion" thing comes in.I will still live bait in public but will wait till Joe,Mrs Joe,Baby Joe and the dog (Joe? ) have gone past/stoped talking to me before I slip Nemo on to a set of size 6's! Kind of a "theres nothing wrong with scratching your ****** just not at the dinner table when having Sunday lunch with the girlfriends parents"! type attitude maybe?

 

Another thing I often contemplate is that if it was to be banned people would still carry on doing it but due to it being illegal would be far more descreet! What they dont see/dont know about wont hurt us. Ive had to adopt this tactic on a couple of waters with livebait bans without problem.I certainly wouldnt worry abnout being caught and prosecuted by the EA as if they cant be bothered to even walk along the bank to check Ive got a licence they are hardly likely to come and check whats on my hooks.

[Dick Dastardly]

nothing to do with PETA antis, beardy weirdies, vegan, gays, or whatever just CHOICE!!

 

Love "beardy weirdies"

 

Seriously though your comment re choice is spot on. Slightly of subject (er in fact absolutely nothing to do with live baiting for perch!) but for years and years I was very anti fox hunting.But in recent times my veiws changed slightly.All though I didnt like the thought of foxs being hunted and killed by dogs and toffs on horses I started to realise that their was something I found more distastefull....that was all those people whose real interest in banning it was their own desire to force their own values on others.Choice is important.

 

I used to shoot but had problems with the "body count" at the end of the day.I stopped but dont expect others to.I smoked heavily for many years but gave up.I dont smoke now but think its disgusting the way smokers in general are treated.

[Emma two]

Love "beardy weirdies"

 

Do you mean carp anglers