live baiting for perch

[Anderoo]

Yes, there's no point trying to change the attitude of an anti - they've made their mind up and will stand their ground. It's the floating voter we ought to be worried about.

 

As for the right way forward, well I really don't know. As long as the status quo continues there isn't a problem. It's a question of choice between anglers, with the odd little flare-up on web forums. No big deal. To be honest I can't see a way forward with this because we all have such different views. If anglers themselves can't agree, what hope is there?

 

The thing that makes me angry is the hypocrisy of people. My mum, for example, (and millions of others like her) would rant and rave about the cruelty of fox hunting while happily tucking into an intensively farmed chicken that would have suffered far beyond what a hunted fox would have. I used to be very good about not eating certain misery meat, but I must admit I've fallen off the 'meat wagon' a bit recently. I need to stop being lazy about that. However, the point is that the general public are easy to connect with at an emotional level, ignoring blatent hypocrosy and double standards. This is best summed up by the woeful state of British newspapers, whose main function seems to be to generate anger and fear in equal proportions.

 

To those who do livebait and defend its use but either don't do it on public waters, or wait until joe and mrs joe public have walked past before hooking a bait and casting - why won't you do it openly? Genuine question, I'm interested.

[Neil G]

Totally agree with what youve said mate. The differences between anglers,anti anglers and the general public are vast.Its because of this that different arguments work/dont work with the different sections.Since you first sugested that the real people we need to have on our side are the GP Ive been in total agreement.

 

That said its hard to work out what the best aproach is! "We dont harm the fish we just catch them and then put them back" isnt always as easily accepted by Joe as you would think! Many find the idea hard to both understand and justify.Some actually find the concept of catching fish and killing them to eat both easier to understand and accept! Er try looking at Germanys' Green Party.

 

With the livebaiting thing I find that most non anglers attribute human feelings etc to fish so whilst they can stomach fishing the idea of sticking a hook in a fish's back is abhorant to them!

 

All though I understand Tiggers " why should we be influenced/worried by what others think" this is really where Neils "discretion" thing comes in.I will still live bait in public but will wait till Joe,Mrs Joe,Baby Joe and the dog (Joe? ) have gone past/stoped talking to me before I slip Nemo on to a set of size 6's! Kind of a "theres nothing wrong with scratching your ****** just not at the dinner table when having Sunday lunch with the girlfriends parents"! type attitude maybe?

 

Another thing I often contemplate is that if it was to be banned people would still carry on doing it but due to it being illegal would be far more descreet! What they dont see/dont know about wont hurt us. Ive had to adopt this tactic on a couple of waters with livebait bans without problem.I certainly wouldnt worry abnout being caught and prosecuted by the EA as if they cant be bothered to even walk along the bank to check Ive got a licence they are hardly likely to come and check whats on my hooks.

 

Agree

 

Ban won't affect it whatsoever...like I said before, almost imposssible to police properly.

 

Some waters i.e Chew Valley are strict, checking baits and lures etc and lives are banned anyway...Rivers are a free for all though, so easy to get away with

Edited July 23, 2008 by Neil G

[Emma two]

Yes, there's no point trying to change the attitude of an anti - they've made their mind up and will stand their ground. It's the floating voter we ought to be worried about.

 

As for the right way forward, well I really don't know. As long as the status quo continues there isn't a problem. It's a question of choice between anglers, with the odd little flare-up on web forums. No big deal. To be honest I can't see a way forward with this because we all have such different views. If anglers themselves can't agree, what hope is there?

 

The thing that makes me angry is the hypocrisy of people. My mum, for example, (and millions of others like her) would rant and rave about the cruelty of fox hunting while happily tucking into an intensively farmed chicken that would have suffered far beyond what a hunted fox would have. I used to be very good about not eating certain misery meat, but I must admit I've fallen off the 'meat wagon' a bit recently. I need to stop being lazy about that. However, the point is that the general public are easy to connect with at an emotional level, ignoring blatent hypocrosy and double standards. This is best summed up by the woeful state of British newspapers, whose main function seems to be to generate anger and fear in equal proportions.

 

To those who do livebait and defend its use but either don't do it on public waters, or wait until joe and mrs joe public have walked past before hooking a bait and casting - why won't you do it openly? Genuine question, I'm interested.

 

Well put, that's how I see it too.

There is nothing like the livebaiting issue to reveal the cracks of hypocracy. Human relationships with other species fascinates me, we treat other creatures so differently depending upon what label we stick on them. I dont eat what you call 'misery meat' (like that term and shall use it), I confine my meat eating to what I or those who I know have killed, this means shot birds and game, AND (shock horror?) some of the fish I catch, not just game fish either, I adore perch(happy to post a few recipies) and make no apologes for knocking part of my stripey catch on the head. This killing is not taken lightly, is conducted swifly and if followed by leaving an offering to the spirit of the land from which the creatures live.

 

If I get a badly hooked pike then it will be dispatched and eaten too, fortunetley it doesnt happen often, the last being about 3 years ago, i take due care with both hooking and unhooking, mat in the bottom of the boat, sling for weighinglong nosed plyers, and wire cutters for snipping embedded hooks away, but in the end if it dies then i see it lke this..'it's a fish'. Why is a Pike more deserving our feelings than the 'humble' sprat which was scooped up out of the sea and gasped its life away in a net or freezer hold, that we used to catch it on? Do we imagine a humane dispatch for all the commercially caught sea fish, or is it that we simply choose not to think too deeply about the deaths which we are remote from? Anyone who condems live baiting, and yet eats intensivley reared meat I see as a hypocrite.

 

I would be happy to livebait 'openly'....I dont because of the ban on almost all the waters I fish, and I rarley see anyone when out fishing anyway. Next week i will be having a few days in the midlands, I have already dug my whip out to catch some baitfish and will be livebaiting quite openly.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Emma two

[Newt]

Oh and as far as 'knocking' live baiting I am not but I am entitled to an opinion without condemning those that feel live baiting is not for them they should not be an angler, what self opinionated rubbish....

 

And you were doing so well up to this point.

 

No one but you wrote, "those that feel live baiting is not for them they should not be an angler", or even implied it from what I read.

 

What was said (and you even quoted it) was, "if you cant cope with sticking hooks in fish, then maybe angling isn't for you?", and since all forms of coarse fishing that I'm aware of, including lure fishing, make use of hooks then that statement is true.

 

Please stick to fussing at people for what they write rather than for some altered version you invented and attributed to them.

[Guest Rabbit]

And you were doing so well up to this point.

 

No one but you wrote, "those that feel live baiting is not for them they should not be an angler", or even implied it from what I read.

 

What was said (and you even quoted it) was, "if you cant cope with sticking hooks in fish, then maybe angling isn't for you?", and since all forms of coarse fishing that I'm aware of, including lure fishing, make use of hooks then that statement is true.

 

Please stick to fussing at people for what they write rather than for some altered version you invented and attributed to them.

 

Me fussing?? so what do you call sifting through everything I write just to have a dig...now that's fussing Newt big time.

i read again the comment quote on quote and have no reason to change what I said, it was actually all good humoured...until now.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Rabbit

[Guest Rabbit]

i think its time to go sorry if i have ruffled a few feathers...but i ain't that bad really, I care, I love my sport, and I love this site, but a bit tired of sparring with a mod on a mission.

[crazynewt]

Hi All,

 

I've been out fishing today and also went earlier in the week. Using lures only I was after pike and perch and out of about 12 hours of thrashing the water, I have only landed 1 fish. Fair play it was a 2lb stripey and a fish to be proud of but out of the rest of the time spent on the bank, most of it was spent having the mickey taken out of me by various members of the Esox and Perca clans. I have been fishing the river Nene and started at a weir pool - from the elevated position of the concrete wall, much of the sub-surface is clearly visible and the pike and perch can be observed following the lures (all different kinds, softs, plugs, spinners, the whole 2 boxes!).

 

You might be wondering where I'm going wih this - bear with me...

 

Until last year I had never livebaited for predators in my life, believing that a skillfully fished lure will be almost as effective if not AS effective. How wrong I was! It was only when fishing the same weirpool as I have been back to this week that I realised how Perch and Pike in clear water will sometimes ONLY feed on live fish prey, even ignoring maggots, worms etc. On this particular day last year, having landed a number of small perch and roach I watched as a shoal of 4 or 5 very large perch moved into the swim, presumably attracted there by the activity. Would they take a worm or maggot?! Not a chance. They swim up to a bait, nose at it and then turn away. However, the smaller perch would still quite happily take the maggots and no sooner did they become hooked, the larger perch went wild. Apparently hunting in a pack they would swarm on the fish as I hurriedly tried to get them in safely! Seeing an opportunity to land a fat stripey, I grabbed my lure rod from the car and came back to the swim once setting up only to become utterly frustrated with the distinct lack of interest from the big fish!

 

I decided to purposely try a livebait (for the first time) and was amazed. Using heavier tackle, every bait that hit the water was taken immediately, majoritively by perch but then I landed 2 pike that I wasn't even aware were there. I just could not believe it!

 

This week has only been made more frustrating by my inability to catch any livebait (due to not having any maggots or worms with me, stupidly) but I have no doubt that had I been in posession of a few live ones, the pike and perch that have smugly taunted me by doing everything but taking my lure would not have been so smug afterall.

 

In summary, in total of 3 days fishing experience on the same part of the same river, over a period of 12 months, my view on livebaiting has gone from an "unecessary practice" to an "essential tool" that will make a difference between catching, and not. The effectiveness of this method, in my opinion as a predator angler, could not have been brought home to me without witnessing what I have.

[Neil G]

Hi All,

 

I've been out fishing today and also went earlier in the week. Using lures only I was after pike and perch and out of about 12 hours of thrashing the water, I have only landed 1 fish. Fair play it was a 2lb stripey and a fish to be proud of but out of the rest of the time spent on the bank, most of it was spent having the mickey taken out of me by various members of the Esox and Perca clans. I have been fishing the river Nene and started at a weir pool - from the elevated position of the concrete wall, much of the sub-surface is clearly visible and the pike and perch can be observed following the lures (all different kinds, softs, plugs, spinners, the whole 2 boxes!).

 

You might be wondering where I'm going wih this - bear with me...

 

Until last year I had never livebaited for predators in my life, believing that a skillfully fished lure will be almost as effective if not AS effective. How wrong I was! It was only when fishing the same weirpool as I have been back to this week that I realised how Perch and Pike in clear water will sometimes ONLY feed on live fish prey, even ignoring maggots, worms etc. On this particular day last year, having landed a number of small perch and roach I watched as a shoal of 4 or 5 very large perch moved into the swim, presumably attracted there by the activity. Would they take a worm or maggot?! Not a chance. They swim up to a bait, nose at it and then turn away. However, the smaller perch would still quite happily take the maggots and no sooner did they become hooked, the larger perch went wild. Apparently hunting in a pack they would swarm on the fish as I hurriedly tried to get them in safely! Seeing an opportunity to land a fat stripey, I grabbed my lure rod from the car and came back to the swim once setting up only to become utterly frustrated with the distinct lack of interest from the big fish!

 

I decided to purposely try a livebait (for the first time) and was amazed. Using heavier tackle, every bait that hit the water was taken immediately, majoritively by perch but then I landed 2 pike that I wasn't even aware were there. I just could not believe it!

 

This week has only been made more frustrating by my inability to catch any livebait (due to not having any maggots or worms with me, stupidly) but I have no doubt that had I been in posession of a few live ones, the pike and perch that have smugly taunted me by doing everything but taking my lure would not have been so smug afterall.

 

In summary, in total of 3 days fishing experience on the same part of the same river, over a period of 12 months, my view on livebaiting has gone from an "unecessary practice" to an "essential tool" that will make a difference between catching, and not. The effectiveness of this method, in my opinion as a predator angler, could not have been brought home to me without witnessing what I have.

 

+1

 

That is almost an identical experience to mine with regards to livebaiting

 

I've had the best deads I could find in the water for hours without a touch in places where I have caught many doubles before on them, paternostered a livey and had a fish within 5/10 minutes...I think that for me was very, very conclusive.

 

Went lure fishing last night and had a few takes but going to live bait down the same spot on Saturday...will be interesting to see if I get many fish on the bank

 

I think a pattern is beginning to emerge, I suppose learning about this and adapting is what angling is about.

[Anderoo]

It is without doubt the most effective way to catch pike, zander and (on certain waters) perch. Joe public doesn't care if we catch a lot of fish or not though!

 

Emma, I agree that fish scooped out of the sea or animals which are intensively farmed suffer infinitely more than a quickly dispatched fish or a cleanly shot animal. I also see nothing wrong with eating coarse fish. People's moral compasses are all over the shop in these enlightened times.

[Dan Dan]

Very interested in a recipe for perch! Could you PM me something?