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Does The Otter Deserve Such Bad Press?


Anglers' Net

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The fact is, native predators will not damage fish stocks in a healthy, balanced ecosystem.

Where do you get this fact from ?

Any species newly introduced (or reintroduced) into an ecosystem will have some effect on that ecosystem.

Yes a balance will eventualy be reached and this will be determined by the type of environment and to say preditation will have no effect is at the least simplifying the issue or at worst misleading.

As for the angling press apart from the odd look at the super market (to see if the free gift is usefull and costs more than the price of the mag) when the wife is shopping I don't partake in the recycled dribble: a waggler is a waggler I don't need telling how to fish it 2013 style.

Smile they said life could get worse, I did and it was

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The UK was under ice, that in itself has provided the categorisation of "native"...if it got here naturally since or, was here during the ice-age then it is native. If it was aided and abetted by Man in any way shape or form then it is non-native.

 

Information put out by the EA or other bodies may be flawed, often, evidence of particular species is provided by catch results, commercial and recreational. It would appear that overall, the European eel is in a severe decline.

 

We have gone a significant way in rectifying the huge damaging changes (that we both hate so much) and now, the countryside is, in part, being restored to the halcyon days of my youth. Result! :)

 

Interesting fact Dormice are non native introduced by the romans and now have protected status.

 

You know, i'd like to hope that the EA survey information isn't flawed but having worked with them for a bit i could see why it would be :) Would be nice to see there survey results for rivers published somewhere.

 

We have not even scratched the surface with regard to damaging changes and in a society that is driven by growth we never will.

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garylee,

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you or for that matter agree entirely with Worms. The question being contested is where do 3 million anglers fit into either your or Worms equation? I see no way for the EA to leave the other 70 odd million UK citizens out who like otters - do you?

Take a look at this http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/W0318E/W0318E20.htm I don't see how you expect nature to stay up with the UK Resource Utilization changes from 1976. The population of wild fish in the UK don't change on a whim. Neither should a naturalized predator suffer because you've changed your angling taste from roach to carp in 30 years.

 

Styles regretfully, have changed but even if they hadn't changed, pressure on the resource certainly has.

 

Phone

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Relax,

 

Your deductive reasoning is flawed. Deductive reasoning works from the more general to the more specific. This is called a "top-down" approach. You are beginning with the theory that otters are bad as the topic of interest. Narrow that down into more specific hypotheses that can be tested. Narrow down even further with observations contrary to EA that ddress your hypotheses. Ultimately, test the hypotheses with specific data -- a confirmation(or not) of your original theories.

 

The number one predator of sporting fish in the UK is angling. Otter eat your sick, dead, or dying fish when they eat larger fish. Otter prefer small, easy to catch schooling juveniles.

These are known facts.

The conflict is with two predators, anglers and otters.

 

Phone

 

Hi, I'm sorry your first paragraph has gone straight over the top of my head. I think i get the line of it, show me where otters have made a comeback and the fish/fishing has improved in a scientific document?

 

I would say number one predator first and foremost is other fish, then birds - grebe's, heron, kingfisher etc all of which i think are great, cormorants not so.

I would guess if you take all the rainbow trout out of the equation - a non native species, anglers improve/increase fish stocks.

 

Otters will take carp when its cold, are your facts based on documents produced by organisations pro otter by chance? they will have a go at anything, even if it means wounding it to swim off.

 

The conflict is not confined to just to predators anglers and otters, but otters and the human race in general, look at what we do by just being here

 

http://www.unboundmedicine.com/medline/citation/16818244/Predicted_exposures_to_steroid_estrogens_in_U_K__rivers_correlate_with_widespread_sexual_disruption_in_wild_fish_populations_

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Water levels seem to be the biggest factor as both rivers appear to be used as balancing rivers (especially the Stour) for reservoir levels etc. This can have a massive negative impact on fry recruitment!

 

 

 

 

Hole in one, excellent, now your getting it. Lets build that ecosystem up from the bottom first.

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Where do you get this fact from ?

Any species newly introduced (or reintroduced) into an ecosystem will have some effect on that ecosystem.

Yes a balance will eventualy be reached and this will be determined by the type of environment and to say preditation will have no effect is at the least simplifying the issue or at worst misleading.

As for the angling press apart from the odd look at the super market (to see if the free gift is usefull and costs more than the price of the mag) when the wife is shopping I don't partake in the recycled dribble: a waggler is a waggler I don't need telling how to fish it 2013 style.

I'm not saying that predation will have no effect, as you say, a balance will be reached. I'd much rather see the non-native carp removed from your rivers than the otter, they will do far more damage to the riverine habitat than an otter will. How long have they been in there? You made a post knocking otters but seem to accept the fact that carp are in the river and the fluctuation of water levels isn't going to impact on the long term population of the natural fish species in the river.

 

You didn't comment on the River Stour predator abundance either. With (allegedly) 30+lb pike in there and at least one guiding company running pike fishing trips how can the river be lacking fish? And, as I said before, lots of people are catching good bags of big non predatory fish. I don't see where your argument is coming from apart from as a personal opinion without facts to back it up.

 

Unfortunately this is precisely why the otter is getting bad press, unsubstantiated opinion!

Edited by Worms

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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Yes seen that phone.

Worms I'm with you on the crap sorry I meant carp and water levels/flow.

But I don't think we'll meet half way on the others (I would put a smilie in but they won't work on this tablet )

Smile they said life could get worse, I did and it was

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I'll put one in for you then... :bleh:

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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