Going back to the mindset of your first days?

[gozzer]

Purple Stephen? I took you for a camo man.

I can see where you are both coming from, (although I believe Davids post was very tongue in cheek), and agree that it should be 'live and let live'. One of the problems I have with so called modern angling is that it doesn't 'live and let live'. The stocking policies, especially on still waters, severely limits certain types of angling, (and it's rapidly spreading to rivers). The multi rod set ups are often 'one to the right, one to the left, one on the far bank, and another wherever I please. In other words 'setting traps'. I know that some anglers do their homework and put the baits in a specific area, but many don't, it's often just a case of more rods out, should mean more bites, (not always the result as we know). It's often down to the 'instant fishery = instant angler, which would be OK if they stayed on those waters, but they take there methods onto other waters, because that's all they know. Even barbel fishing on the rivers is like that now, often with a couple of self hooking rigs out, while they pass the time trotting the inside line, (trapping again). I may be 'old fashioned' but I hate to see the use of a 'sleeper rod' out 'just in case something comes along'.
I might be wrong, but I think you do quite a bit of fishing with some of the lads on AN,(mostly a sensible lot:) ), and fish mainly waters of your choice. It's not the same for everyone, and they are limited to in their choice of waters, so it's not surprising that some anglers meet up with the 'idiots' more often than others do.
If you just look at the stereotype of anglers of yesteryear and that of today, you can see a massive difference. Back then we were looked upon as mysterious, slightly excentic characters who disappeared early mornings. Now it's all flash and high profile. In the media mourning the loss of a named big fish, or campaigning to cull/kill anything that interferes with our fishing.Only stereotypes, I know, but they count for a lot in the public image.

John.

Edited March 13, 2013 by gozzer

[Anderoo]

John, a serious but slightly devil's advocate type question - is fishing the upstream feeder 'trapping'? If not, does it become trapping if more than one rod is used?

 

You can probably see where I'm going with this...

[Dales]

Hi John, yes I am lucky to fish a better class of waters these days and do fish a few "exclusive" waters for want of a better term. This does have an effect on the way I view things as it does mean the chances are I will run in to less idiots. But still see the odd one :-)

 

As I kid my fishing options where a lot more limited and in comparison to the sort of people I used to meet while fishing things have drastically improved. I do think a lot of "commercials" and "modern angling methods" do get a hard time. Some deservedly so and some not. I enjoy fishing more "traditional methods" as I do "modern methods" and am happy fishing for all species of fish on different venues. I just do not accept that the tackle/method you use dictates what sort of person you are.

 

I know many worry about the future of angling and the lack of water craft of youngsters but to be honest the ones I see seem very talented. I enjoy a trip to commercial waters for Zander, Cats and Perch and it does mean I run in to "hoi polloi" and the dreaded Carp angler. In my eyes it's not the youngsters who are a problem or even those who have only Carp fished all their lives. I tend to find some of the worst anglers are those who have come back to the sport. They drifted out as alot do to concentrate on beer, girls, music, drugs etc and now come back and it all seem's different. They seem to think they must conform to "modern angling" and it tends to be these anglers who rush out and buy what they assume is the correct gear so they can fish in the correct way. I can see there is a reason why many think they must adopt the "modern carp approach" as Carp are now everywhere. A lot of these returning anglers often get miss labeled as "instant anglers" when they turn up in there late twenties after a huge shopping trip and head to the new commercial lake that never existed when they used to fish.

 

Many youngsters now cut their teeth on commercials and do get the carp set up very early when compaired to those current anglers of a certain age. There is a wealth of knowledge available to youngsters now and these young "twitterati" are often exposed to so much more information then we where as kids and so their learning methods are different. They might pick up more from watching Thinking Tackle and less from being guided by a Crabtree guru, But that's modern life. I am not bothered how others choose to fish but it does annoy me a little when everything that is percieved as modern is rubbished and on this forum that generaly means any thing associated with Carp or commercials.

[gozzer]

John, a serious but slightly devil's advocate type question - is fishing the upstream feeder 'trapping'? If not, does it become trapping if more than one rod is used?

 

You can probably see where I'm going with this...

 

My idea of 'trapping' Andrew, is just slinging a bait (or usually several), into the water without any (or much) thought as to why. As long as it's in the water, it's 'fishing' type of attitude. Fishing like that is (IMO) just setting a trap in the hope that it's in the vicinity of a fish, and it takes. The fact that it's usually a self hooking rig, means that it's fishing itself, and the 'angler' can pay attention to a float rod, (or whatever) and be reasonably certain that the 'sleeper' rod will do the hooking for him. Regardless of where the rod is cast, be it upstream, downstream or whatever. In my mind it's no better than a 'dead line' or 'fixed engine' and that is illegal. It's a mindset that must have come from the overstocked waters, where the chances of casting near to fish are greater.

The self hooking rig was 'invented' to overcome certain problems, as you know. One of which wasn't to allow the 'angler to have some 'time off' doing a bit of other fishing, to pass the time between bites.

 

John.

 

 

[Steve Burke]

John, a sleeper rod was commonly used when you and I were young, so hasn't sprung up just with the advent of overstocked commercials. If you recall it was often a ledger rod (or a pike outfit) whilst the angler was float fishing.

 

However I can see where you're coming from, and for that matter all the other posters.

[gozzer]

I agree Stephen, that "the tackle you use doesn't dictate the type of person you are", but how you use it does dictate the type of angler you are. Any method has a place in the anglers armoury, but too often the methods I've mentioned are used all the time, any place, regardless.
Yes I do give some commercials, and the over stocking of carp a 'hard time'. That's because it impacts greatly on my fishing.
Over the years I've found that once financial gain becomes the main priority in anything, something is lost. This especially applies with angling. It's become more of a business, supplying a commodity (the fish), than a pleasant pastime to be savoured and enjoyed. In the haste to supply the commodity, and meet the demand of over expectant customers, fish (usually carp) have been poured into waters at an alarming rate. Many good waters have been ruined because of this, often indirectly through over spill and escapees.
I've never minded change, but reasonably natural change,over time. Not the artificial change that's done now, at a fast rate and usually for financial reasons. What we have had over the last 20 odd years, borders on vandalism/pollution.
All the change in stock levels has produced a type of angler that was never there before. I disagree that it's mainly those who come back to angling, I find it's right at the grass roots, the kids. I know of some very good level headed young anglers, but for every one I meet, there are several others who just follow the hype in the media. They obviously don't have any guidance from more experienced anglers, and the waters they mainly fish are also fished by older anglers of a similar mind set, so they carry on with what they believe is the 'norm', and then take it to other waters.
I might be sounding 'elitist', but I assure you I'm not. I do genuinely fear for the future of angling, as it becomes more and more artificial, and newcomers are urged to 'fish by numbers'. I believe that innovation among anglers is waning, 'just leave it to the experts, then buy it', instead of thinking it out for yourself. More 'knee jerk' rules and regulations, dictating what you can do, and the much held opinion that fish are the most important things in nature, and we must protect them at all costs. After all they are an expensive commodity aren't they?

John.

 

Sorry for taking so long to post, but I've got a sticking F key, and have to go back and check it's worked.

Testing, ffffffff.

[gozzer]

John, a sleeper rod was commonly used when you and I were young, so hasn't sprung up just with the advent of overstocked commercials. If you recall it was often a ledger rod (or a pike outfit) whilst the angler was float fishing.

 

However I can see where you're coming from, and for that matter all the other posters.

 

It might have been common down your way Steve, but apart from the odd pike float, it wasn't very common around here. Possibly because it was one rod per licence/day ticket/yearbook. back then.

 

John.

[Anderoo]

 

My idea of 'trapping' Andrew, is just slinging a bait (or usually several), into the water without any (or much) thought as to why. As long as it's in the water, it's 'fishing' type of attitude. Fishing like that is (IMO) just setting a trap in the hope that it's in the vicinity of a fish, and it takes. The fact that it's usually a self hooking rig, means that it's fishing itself, and the 'angler' can pay attention to a float rod, (or whatever) and be reasonably certain that the 'sleeper' rod will do the hooking for him. Regardless of where the rod is cast, be it upstream, downstream or whatever. In my mind it's no better than a 'dead line' or 'fixed engine' and that is illegal. It's a mindset that must have come from the overstocked waters, where the chances of casting near to fish are greater.

The self hooking rig was 'invented' to overcome certain problems, as you know. One of which wasn't to allow the 'angler to have some 'time off' doing a bit of other fishing, to pass the time between bites.

 

John.

 

 

 

I see, what you call 'trapping' I call 'bad angling' or 'casting anywhere'.

 

I would call 'trapping' fishing in a way where once you've cast you leave it and wait for a fish to find your bait, take it, and hook itself. I do quite a bit of that type of fishing, including the upstream feeder for roach on the river, which has made catching those tricky roach bordering on easy. It's been around for a while now though, and is seen as a skillful and traditional method. It might be both of those, but it's also a self-hooking method that does all the work for you. A 'sleeper' rod, if you like, or a 'dead line' or 'fixed engine'

 

On the other hand, if I'm fishing 2 rods on alarms for perch, is that 'trapping'? I'm using running rigs, and if I don't strike at the right time they eject the bait. Both rods will be cast out and left alone until I get a bite, or want to recast with fresh bait. On the face of it, modern lazy angling of the worst kind; actually, way more involved and difficult than feeder fishing for those roach with a single rod.

[Mat Hillman]

Chuck it and chance it fishing has caught me several PB's

 

surely at the end of the day it's a matter of respect, not tackle or angling skill / technique, As long as what you are doing isn't damage the banks, the fish or spoiling other anglers enjoyment of their fishing then it's no ones business but your own!

 

 

Mat

[Dales]

John, I agree with you on a lot of things but as you know I don't agree about commercials. I do genuinely feel for those who have had good mixed natural fisheries turned over to Carp fisheries. I fish for all sorts but consider myself a coarse angler and had always fished natural stocked waters and Walthamstow Reserviours but not for Carp.

 

I gave up fishing in my early twenties and had never fished a commercial. There where far to many other distractions to be bothered with fishing. Many many years later one of my mates who was teaching his nephew how to fish and invited me along to a trip to a commercial and I dug out some of my old gear and caught a huge Rudd and was addicted again. I carried on using my old gear and methods for years, I could not give a monkeys that now there was loads of new fisheries springing up or that my tackle might be considered old hat. As the years went by I did start to update my gear and learn new ways to fish. I did mind that some of my old fisheries had changed, the old club water that I used to fish had moved in the direction of a Carp fishery so did not bother to rejoin, the river lea had deteriorated even further. Hollow pond a tuff local water had stoped being a fishery not ruined by carp or modern methods but by progress and a huge road building project cutting through the water table. My local Lea was also not ruined by modern fishing. All the ponds in the local forest had now had fishing removed. The club lake well that could have had a different outcome but surely the members or those who bothered to turn up to meetings must have voted for it. Walthamstow reservours had gone over to Carp as everyone was convinced that the cormorants had eaten everything else. Nothing stays the same for a whole host of reasons, hence why I posted near the start of this thread "No, never go back" as it tends to be a disappointment.

 

As an angler who took time out, I have noticed that those who have done the same often react in a few ways.

 

1) Carry on fishing as they used to and not be influenced by the changes.

2) Adapt some of the new stuff in to their own style.

3) Blindly try to copy what ever one else is doing now.

4) Moan about all the new stuff and blame everything that has changed on modern fishing.

 

I might miss the old waters I used to fish but this idea that anglers where more skilled or more polite rather amusing. As a kid I seem to remember those Mr Crabtree looking anglers turning up and being mightly annoyed to find there favourite swim taken and would think nothing of whacking out a dead bait in to your swim. Reserving swims for my mate was common as was fishing swims on rotation so they where never free. Old skool Bream anglers would happily empty a few tonne of crumb in to the middle of the lake and not be to bothered what everyone else was up to. We have demonised a whole section of anglers because they fish for Carp and fish in a certain way. I don't want to see natural waters turned in to Carp fisheries but all those problems that wind people up used to go on before the "carp machine". The focus for most might now be Carp but the bad behavour existed before when many anglers targeted other coarse species.