British records increasing .

[Steve Burke]

So I have taken time to consider and I think that temperature is key (probably) and to a lesser extent HNV feed and water/ volume quality (probably) which means I was wrong(probably) regarding HNV as the main reason for rapid weight gain.

 

It takes a good angler to change his views, a better one to admit it. Respect!

[Steve Burke]

Tar carpers with what?

 

On the bream thing, consider this - in the spring I spend a bit of time fly fishing at Farmoor, often with Steve Walker. The big bream in that reservoir are well known about, and coarse fishing is strickly forbidden and will never be allowed (I've tried ). Every year bream to 15lb+ get caught by fly anglers fishing little nymphs deep down. More than one 20lb+ bream has been found dead over the years, and according to the warden we were chatting to last year, the biggest one they found and weighed was over 26lb (yes, twenty six pounds).

 

As far as I know, that's the biggest bream to ever be found in the UK. Even allowing for some bloating, it would still easily beat the current record by a mile.

 

How many boilies and pellets do you think ever get thrown into Farmoor?

 

So, why do the bream there grow so huge?

 

Excellent post!

 

I'm going to quote this in future when we discuss this question elsewhere, especially at Wingham.

[Steve Walker]

I have always been under the impression that global warming has s in many animals tend to make them smaller. I found this article which maybe of interest to some

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081106064631.htm

That's saying something subtly different, Dave - it's saying that the typical warm water species in those areas are smaller than the typical cold water species, so the effect of an increase in temperature is a change in the fish assemblage such that the smaller species become more dominant. You could see the opposite effect in an area where the warm water species were larger than the cold water species.

 

In terms of the effect on a given species, I think the effect you see will depend upon where in the species range of tolerance the current climate is. If we are at the cold end of the scale for a species, we could expect to see it doing better and growing larger, and vice-versa if we are at the cold end. Good news for tench, bad news for char.

[Steve Walker]

Excellent post!

 

I'm going to quote this in future when we discuss this question elsewhere, especially at Wingham.

Farmoor has another relevance to your thoughts about Wingham, Steve - it is absolutely stuffed with rapaciously predatory rainbow trout! It has massive bloodworm beds (a buzzer hatch looks like something from the African Great Lakes) and lots of the vicious trout eating up the fry. Lots of food, high predation, negligible fishing pressure (for bream).

[gozzer]

Another thought I've had in regard to river fish, barbel in particular, is that there were always exceptionally large fish about, but the competition from smaller fish meant they were very rarely caught. I remember back in the late 60s or early 70s, a barbel in excess of 17lb coming out o the Yorks Ure. It was caught while fly fishing, in the coarse closed season, so didn't count as a record, which stood (I think) at about 13 or14 lb at the time. I also recall divers working at Topcliffe Mill on the Swale, reporting seeing massive barbel, estimated at 20lb+, and this was back in the 60s. Back then the Yorkshire rivers had loads of barbel in the 1 to 3lb class, a 5lber was a good fish, above 7lb and you were talking big, 10lb exceptional. I don't see or hear of those smaller barbel, (below 3lb) being caught in any numbers. Is it because they aren't there, or because they're not considered worthy of mentioning?

 

John.

[Steve Burke]

Farmoor has another relevance to your thoughts about Wingham, Steve - it is absolutely stuffed with rapaciously predatory rainbow trout! It has massive bloodworm beds (a buzzer hatch looks like something from the African Great Lakes) and lots of the vicious trout eating up the fry. Lots of food, high predation, negligible fishing pressure (for bream).

 

Very interesting, especially the lack of fishing pressure. Thanks, Steve.

[wotnobivvy]

I am not an expert on fish breeding, but for years now we have been leaching fertiliser into our waters, which could affect weed growth and thus the availability of more nutritious food for aquatic herbivores. Also it's only recently that we have had mobile phones and the internet to spread information far and wide at the speed of light (well nearly). I am sure that a lot of large fish went largely unreported to the mass public, and was kept locally for this reason

[Dave H]

Farmoor has another relevance to your thoughts about Wingham, Steve - it is absolutely stuffed with rapaciously predatory rainbow trout! It has massive bloodworm beds (a buzzer hatch looks like something from the African Great Lakes) and lots of the vicious trout eating up the fry. Lots of food, high predation, negligible fishing pressure (for bream).

Steve i already had this conversation that the link was

 

That's saying something subtly different, Dave - it's saying that the typical warm water species in those areas are smaller than the typical cold water species, so the effect of an increase in temperature is a change in the fish assemblage such that the smaller species become more dominant. You could see the opposite effect in an area where the warm water species were larger than the cold water species.

 

In terms of the effect on a given species, I think the effect you see will depend upon where in the species range of tolerance the current climate is. If we are at the cold end of the scale for a species, we could expect to see it doing better and growing larger, and vice-versa if we are at the cold end. Good news for tench, bad news for char.

Steve. As i have said the link was there for interest that's all and i stated that and you have put your views forward...That's all. It was not me using evidence to back my theory. If i had said' There you go to back what i am saying' that would be different.

[Dave H]

Tar carpers with what?

 

On the bream thing, consider this - in the spring I spend a bit of time fly fishing at Farmoor, often with Steve Walker. The big bream in that reservoir are well known about, and coarse fishing is strickly forbidden and will never be allowed (I've tried ). Every year bream to 15lb+ get caught by fly anglers fishing little nymphs deep down. More than one 20lb+ bream has been found dead over the years, and according to the warden we were chatting to last year, the biggest one they found and weighed was over 26lb (yes, twenty six pounds).

 

As far as I know, that's the biggest bream to ever be found in the UK. Even allowing for some bloating, it would still easily beat the current record by a mile.

 

How many boilies and pellets do you think ever get thrown into Farmoor?

 

So, why do the bream there grow so huge?

I could if i knew the place but i never comment on a perticular item or purchase or place that i have never had and/or never been too.

 

i think it was quite clear that we cant tar all Carp anglers with throwing boilies in the water in droves. so i have explained the first and can't comment on the last?.

 

But as you previously said you don't disagree that in part boilies are to blame. Well i said that partly natural food also to blame for increase of weights . i have said from the very start this being the case. You always seem to look for something that is not there.

 

I was with budgie today and as he said the other day what has happened to the sense of humour on this site?

what's with the large letters and quite a brash post....Chill out Andrew its just a debate my friend

Edited March 21, 2013 by Dave H

[lutra]

An interesting thread indeed.

If I may add my tupence worth:

The increased growing season possibly caused by global warming or an increase of chemicals in the water does not only apply to fish.

Plants, Water snails, shrimps, mussels, bloodworm/joker, microscopic life and the rest of the underwater creatures must be effected in some way.

These creatures are then eaten by fish that are at the top of the foodchain reeping the benefits.

 

One thing that is strange is that Rudd, Roach, Dace,Bleak,Gudgeon etc are not growing to big sizes.

Back in my youth when we caught massive Rudd up to 4lb, they lived in big shallow bloodworm rich drains that were unfished. The drains were next to dykes and the other side the River Deben. I think the drain water may have been slightly brackish and supported some saltwater shrimps which may explain the Rudds big size.

The drains connected to a water called Kingsfeet which at the time held massive Tench into double figures.

Melton lakes further up the Deben and seperated from it by a dyke/seawall was featured on John Wilsons 'Go Fishing' where he fished for monster bream. Is it a coincedence that coarse fish living next to a saltwater river but in very different venues miles apart grew to such big sizes?

 

Rudd, Roach, and Dace records are all held up north these days. Is that a sign that they are not to keen on warmer temps?

 

Not sure how many wannabe Bleak and gudgeon record holders there is out there.