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British records increasing .


Dave H

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I think you will find some of the biggest bream caught in the UK had a belly full of boilies. So yes I think a belly full of boilies could (but may be didn't) make a fish (even a bream) a record, but it would need to be a big fish in the first place. Having said that i still think the warmer climate is the biggest factor by a long way in are fish getting bigger. .

I concede that a lot of boilies could add that extra bit to push it over a record but not that the boilies made them huge fish to start of with. Something else like you say like climate made them huge in the first place.

Stephen

 

Species Caught 2014

Zander, Pike, Bream, Roach, Tench, Perch, Rudd, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Eel, Grayling, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout

Species Caught 2013

Pike, Zander, Bream, Roach, Eel, Tench, Rudd, Perch, Common Carp, Koi Carp, Brown Goldfish, Grayling, Brown Trout, Chub, Roosterfish, Dorado, Black Grouper, Barracuda, Mangrove Snapper, Mutton Snapper, Jack Crevalle, Tarpon, Red Snapper

Species Caught 2012
Zander, Pike, Perch, Chub, Ruff, Gudgeon, Dace, Minnow, Wels Catfish, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Roach, Bream, Eel, Rudd, Tench, Arapaima, Mekong Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Marbled Tiger Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Thai Redtail Catfish, Batrachian Walking Catfish, Siamese Carp, Rohu, Julliens Golden Prize Carp, Giant Gourami, Java Barb, Red Tailed Tin Foil Barb, Nile Tilapia, Black Pacu, Red Bellied Pacu, Alligator Gar
Species Caught 2011
Zander, Tench, Bream, Chub, Barbel, Roach, Rudd, Grayling, Brown Trout, Salmon Parr, Minnow, Pike, Eel, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Koi Carp, Crucian Carp, F1 Carp, Blue Orfe, Ide, Goldfish, Brown Goldfish, Comet Goldfish, Golden Tench, Golden Rudd, Perch, Gudgeon, Ruff, Bleak, Dace, Sergeant Major, French Grunt, Yellow Tail Snapper, Tom Tate Grunt, Clown Wrasse, Slippery Dick Wrasse, Doctor Fish, Graysby, Dusky Squirrel Fish, Longspine Squirrel Fish, Stripped Croaker, Leather Jack, Emerald Parrot Fish, Red Tail Parrot Fish, White Grunt, Bone Fish
Species Caught 2010
Zander, Pike, Perch, Eel, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Mirror Carp, Common Carp, Crucian Carp, Siamese Carp, Asian Redtail Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Rohu, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Pacu, Long Tom, Moon Wrasse, Sergeant Major, Green Damsel, Tomtate Grunt, Sea Chub, Yellowtail Surgeon, Black Damsel, Blue Dot Grouper, Checkered Sea Perch, Java Rabbitfish, One Spot Snapper, Snubnose Rudderfish
Species Caught 2009
Barramundi, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Wallago Leeri Catfish, Wallago Attu Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Mrigul, Siamese Carp, Java Barb, Tarpon, Wahoo, Barracuda, Skipjack Tuna, Bonito, Yellow Eye Rockfish, Red Snapper, Mangrove Snapper, Black Fin Snapper, Dog Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Marble Grouper, Black Fin Tuna, Spanish Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Redhind Grouper, Saddle Grouper, Schoolmaster, Coral Trout, Bar Jack, Pike, Zander, Perch, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Common Carp, Golden Tench, Wels Catfish
Species Caught 2008
Dorado, Wahoo, Barracuda, Bonito, Black Fin Tuna, Long Tom, Sergeant Major, Red Snapper, Black Damsel, Queen Trigga Fish, Red Grouper, Redhind Grouper, Rainbow Wrasse, Grey Trigger Fish, Ehrenbergs Snapper, Malabar Grouper, Lunar Fusiler, Two Tone Wrasse, Starry Dragonet, Convict Surgeonfish, Moonbeam Dwarf Angelfish,Bridled Monocle Bream, Redlined Triggerfish, Cero Mackeral, Rainbow Runner
Species Caught 2007
Arapaima, Alligator Gar, Mekong Catfish, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Pacu, Siamese Carp, Barracuda, Black Fin Tuna, Queen Trigger Fish, Red Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Honeycomb Grouper, Red Grouper, Schoolmaster, Cubera Snapper, Black Grouper, Albacore, Ballyhoo, Coney, Yellowfin Goatfish, Lattice Spinecheek

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I concede that a lot of boilies could add that extra bit to push it over a record but not that the boilies made them huge fish to start of with. Something else like you say like climate made them huge in the first place.

We can't tar every carper with this. I think at times we tar them all with the same brush and that is not true. Something did make them increase but to me its just the quickness of the increase.By no means am i saying that records would creep up in time.

 

I wish we could load up the dumpers put all on a few gravel pits and leave the rest of us to let the fish grow without them and that would include some carpers but not all. I think we or i certainly do that both increase. i really do wish the boilie was never invented...:)


There is not one thing different between ideology and religeon
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Having had time to chew over what has been put forward so far as to why UK fish are getting bigger, I feel pretty much as though I could subscribe to climate change ie warming as possibly the biggest influence on fish growth.

 

However fish are perhaps unique in that their growth unlike other creatures can attain rapid growth over a short period of time.

I gave the example of taking a gold fish from a bowl and put him in a pond and he will double his size in the first year, and so on, in fact I did this with a small common carp that we had with the gold fish, and his growth rate was astonishing in the pond.

 

So fish do have the necessary biological requirement to grow quickly, from an adult, which for me is unique.

 

So we can appreciate that water volume is a key factor, and probably too temperature, especially in the Carp family. To what extent high protein nutrition has on growth rates is the real question, and something as Anglers that we can influence.

 

Of course these high nutrition foods are fed to Salmon and they experience rapid growth rates in a captive environment, so whether this is also a factor in coarse fish I do not really know.

 

So I have taken time to consider and I think that temperature is key (probably) and to a lesser extent HNV feed and water/ volume quality (probably) which means I was wrong(probably) regarding HNV as the main reason for rapid weight gain.

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Dave, I love the boilie and I love plastic. Without those to very useful bits of bait I think I would struggle to be able to do my gravel pit Tench & Bream fishing. I am open to suggestions if you have a better way of fishing?

 

Dave as a man with record fish experience, do you think your barbel was made huge from anglers piling in the boilies before you caught it? Or did the boilie brigade come after your record capture? It's obvious what I am trying to get at, I am assuming some other factors made that fish big and not heavy baiting although heavy baiting may have accounted for some one else catching it so soon after at a slightly higher weight.

Stephen

 

Species Caught 2014

Zander, Pike, Bream, Roach, Tench, Perch, Rudd, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Eel, Grayling, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout

Species Caught 2013

Pike, Zander, Bream, Roach, Eel, Tench, Rudd, Perch, Common Carp, Koi Carp, Brown Goldfish, Grayling, Brown Trout, Chub, Roosterfish, Dorado, Black Grouper, Barracuda, Mangrove Snapper, Mutton Snapper, Jack Crevalle, Tarpon, Red Snapper

Species Caught 2012
Zander, Pike, Perch, Chub, Ruff, Gudgeon, Dace, Minnow, Wels Catfish, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Roach, Bream, Eel, Rudd, Tench, Arapaima, Mekong Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Marbled Tiger Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Thai Redtail Catfish, Batrachian Walking Catfish, Siamese Carp, Rohu, Julliens Golden Prize Carp, Giant Gourami, Java Barb, Red Tailed Tin Foil Barb, Nile Tilapia, Black Pacu, Red Bellied Pacu, Alligator Gar
Species Caught 2011
Zander, Tench, Bream, Chub, Barbel, Roach, Rudd, Grayling, Brown Trout, Salmon Parr, Minnow, Pike, Eel, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Koi Carp, Crucian Carp, F1 Carp, Blue Orfe, Ide, Goldfish, Brown Goldfish, Comet Goldfish, Golden Tench, Golden Rudd, Perch, Gudgeon, Ruff, Bleak, Dace, Sergeant Major, French Grunt, Yellow Tail Snapper, Tom Tate Grunt, Clown Wrasse, Slippery Dick Wrasse, Doctor Fish, Graysby, Dusky Squirrel Fish, Longspine Squirrel Fish, Stripped Croaker, Leather Jack, Emerald Parrot Fish, Red Tail Parrot Fish, White Grunt, Bone Fish
Species Caught 2010
Zander, Pike, Perch, Eel, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Mirror Carp, Common Carp, Crucian Carp, Siamese Carp, Asian Redtail Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Rohu, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Pacu, Long Tom, Moon Wrasse, Sergeant Major, Green Damsel, Tomtate Grunt, Sea Chub, Yellowtail Surgeon, Black Damsel, Blue Dot Grouper, Checkered Sea Perch, Java Rabbitfish, One Spot Snapper, Snubnose Rudderfish
Species Caught 2009
Barramundi, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Wallago Leeri Catfish, Wallago Attu Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Mrigul, Siamese Carp, Java Barb, Tarpon, Wahoo, Barracuda, Skipjack Tuna, Bonito, Yellow Eye Rockfish, Red Snapper, Mangrove Snapper, Black Fin Snapper, Dog Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Marble Grouper, Black Fin Tuna, Spanish Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Redhind Grouper, Saddle Grouper, Schoolmaster, Coral Trout, Bar Jack, Pike, Zander, Perch, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Common Carp, Golden Tench, Wels Catfish
Species Caught 2008
Dorado, Wahoo, Barracuda, Bonito, Black Fin Tuna, Long Tom, Sergeant Major, Red Snapper, Black Damsel, Queen Trigga Fish, Red Grouper, Redhind Grouper, Rainbow Wrasse, Grey Trigger Fish, Ehrenbergs Snapper, Malabar Grouper, Lunar Fusiler, Two Tone Wrasse, Starry Dragonet, Convict Surgeonfish, Moonbeam Dwarf Angelfish,Bridled Monocle Bream, Redlined Triggerfish, Cero Mackeral, Rainbow Runner
Species Caught 2007
Arapaima, Alligator Gar, Mekong Catfish, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Pacu, Siamese Carp, Barracuda, Black Fin Tuna, Queen Trigger Fish, Red Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Honeycomb Grouper, Red Grouper, Schoolmaster, Cubera Snapper, Black Grouper, Albacore, Ballyhoo, Coney, Yellowfin Goatfish, Lattice Spinecheek

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Tar carpers with what?

 

On the bream thing, consider this - in the spring I spend a bit of time fly fishing at Farmoor, often with Steve Walker. The big bream in that reservoir are well known about, and coarse fishing is strickly forbidden and will never be allowed (I've tried ;) ). Every year bream to 15lb+ get caught by fly anglers fishing little nymphs deep down. More than one 20lb+ bream has been found dead over the years, and according to the warden we were chatting to last year, the biggest one they found and weighed was over 26lb (yes, twenty six pounds).

 

As far as I know, that's the biggest bream to ever be found in the UK. Even allowing for some bloating, it would still easily beat the current record by a mile.

 

How many boilies and pellets do you think ever get thrown into Farmoor?

 

So, why do the bream there grow so huge?

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I'm not exactly certain where terms like "king carp" and "ghost carp" started. It is local to the UK and they are neither a race or species or sub-species of common carp. I believe "king carp" was a commercial marketing ploy in the early years of carp puddles (?). I think ghost are a color variation (different from scale variations in that color can have a lot more transitional forms). The "blueprint" is scaly carp. Without interference all common carp would eventually become scaly carp.

 

According to Kevin Clifford in "A History of Carp Fishing" the term king carp means those with "an enhanced growth rate produced by selective breeding, and which also have some irregular scale patterns". This was to differentiate them from the original "wild carp" that were all slim commons and didn't grow nearly so big.

Wingham Specimen Coarse & Carp Syndicates www.winghamfisheries.co.uk Beautiful, peaceful, little fished gravel pit syndicates in Kent with very big fish. 2017 Forum Fish-In Sat May 6 to Mon May 8. Articles http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/steveburke.htm Index of all my articles on Angler's Net

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I'd have thought the biggest factor in the increase in tench weights is the abolition of the closed season.

 

Edit - also the record tench was spawnbound and, I think, suffering from dropsy. Any Tenchfishers here to confirm? The record might be 15lb+ but there have been very few over 12lb. And almost all tench over 10lb reported each year are caught in may/June and are heavy with spawn. Outside the spawning window, a 9lb tench is still very big indeed.

 

As I posted earlier, we got some of the tench to stock Wingham from an estate lake that had rarely been fished. What I didn't mention that this was from 1996, just after the close season on stillwaters was abolished. The tench there were already big, so I don't think that fits.

 

I don't think the current tench record had dropsy, although I seem to recall a previous one did. I do however agree with your other comments.

Wingham Specimen Coarse & Carp Syndicates www.winghamfisheries.co.uk Beautiful, peaceful, little fished gravel pit syndicates in Kent with very big fish. 2017 Forum Fish-In Sat May 6 to Mon May 8. Articles http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/steveburke.htm Index of all my articles on Angler's Net

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Steve,

 

I have an aquaculture note on nitrate/phosphate levels. In this case I cannot give you a source as I don't have one written down.

 

Nitrate

.06mg/L recommended

>.10mg/L to much

 

Phosphate levels

> .01mg/L to much

 

I have no idea how a common person could do a measurement.

 

Phone

 

I don't have any figures to hand for phosphate levels but I know of a gravel pit in SE England that has a nitrate level of .4mg/L. I've just spoken to the Environment Agency on another matter and this sort of level seems to be typical.

 

Years ago when I was a lad gravel pits were gin clear, often weedless, and contained a lot less fish food. Since then they've changed out of all recognition, and the generally accepted theory is that it's due to increased nitrates and phosphates, a good proportion of which has come from modern farming practices.

 

Whether this is the one of the main reasons for the fish growing bigger is more debateable, although as I've already posted I believe so.

Edited by Steve Burke

Wingham Specimen Coarse & Carp Syndicates www.winghamfisheries.co.uk Beautiful, peaceful, little fished gravel pit syndicates in Kent with very big fish. 2017 Forum Fish-In Sat May 6 to Mon May 8. Articles http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/steveburke.htm Index of all my articles on Angler's Net

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I have always been under the impression that global warming has s in many animals tend to make them smaller. I found this article which maybe of interest to some

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081106064631.htm

 

Very interesting, Dave! Thanks for sharing it.

 

I think the effect of global warming on fish will vary with the species and the country. As I posted earlier, the species where the UK record has gone up most in percentage terms are all those who would benefit from increased temperatures. Until recently tench and carp in the UK were near the northern limit of their range, and carp in France still grow bigger than in the UK, probably for this reason.

Wingham Specimen Coarse & Carp Syndicates www.winghamfisheries.co.uk Beautiful, peaceful, little fished gravel pit syndicates in Kent with very big fish. 2017 Forum Fish-In Sat May 6 to Mon May 8. Articles http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/steveburke.htm Index of all my articles on Angler's Net

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So fish do have the necessary biological requirement to grow quickly, from an adult, which for me is unique.

Amongst the vertebrates, indeterminate growth is typical for fish, reptiles and amphibians, but does not to my knowledge occur in any birds or mammals.
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