Commercial Fisheries they can't all be bad, can they?

[azrael]

Bury Hill has been on the go long before the word commercials was coined. Same for stillwater trout fisheries. They've got a bad name since the very heavily stocked waters got going. Those are the ones that deserve their reputation.

bury hills not a commercial?

 

who was it that said everyone knows one good J........

 

the place I fish is not a commercial it's the other ones that are and most clubs are commercials with no restaurant

 

natural stocked still waters are rarer then virgin in Essex night club

 

you want to think your lady is but really you know she has been over stocked

[gozzer]

Right a few questions for those who defend the overstocked commies.

 

If they tripled the size of the goalmouth in football, used 9 stumps instead of 3 in cricket, made dartboards 4ft diameter, and put sauce pan sized pockets on snooker tables.

After all, you would get 'rugby scores' at football, loads of '5 for' and '10 for' at cricket, many more 180s, and 9 dart finishes, and loads of 147 breaks.

Would you still think it worth watching it and paying for the privilege?

 

If you went to a fishery, that had all the amenities that Dales mentioned, and maybe more, but, it had a balanced, natural, and varied stock level.

Would you pay to fish it?

Do you think it would be popular?

 

John.

[Dales]

If you went to a fishery, that had all the amenities that Dales mentioned, and maybe more, but, it had a balanced, natural, and varied stock level.

Would you pay to fish it?

Do you think it would be popular?

 

John.

 

Don't tease me John, that would be my dream fishery with the addition of a handful of Cats and Zander.

 

 

I should point out that I like fishing commercials but not targeting the over stocked fish but trying to catch the lower stocked fish such as the Cats or Zander in a "Carp style fishery" as opposed to fishing for cats in a "cat commercial stocked for catfish fishery".

 

But I get your point, most people fish commercials because they provide easy and prolific fishing.

 

The thing is clubs that offer natural stocked waters are failing to attract enough members who wish to fish them and most cant wait to drop the rivers on their books and turn every still water in to a commercial style carp pool. It's what most people these days want and more importantly what they are willing to pay for.

 

There always seems to be this idea that if you offer the perfect "natural water" all of a sudden anglers will release they have been hood winked in to fishing commercials and want to fish the natural water. The truth is people vote with their feet, people like "catching" and the most tragic thing about commercials is not what they have done but the fact that clubs have stupidly tried to compete and in general have come a poor second offering the same sort of fish and stocking levels but without the same level of amenities.

 

Commercials just offer what their customers want which is what any good business should do. As for free and wild fishing, the Lea should be free in a few years as no one seems to want it on their books anymore. The Lea Anglers Consortium wound up around a year ago as they could not find anyone to lead it and at the meeting they decided to wind up only representatives of around 8 or the 20 odd member clubs bothered ti turn up. Everyone seems to be giving up their rights on the rivers around here. So do anglers really want natural/wild fisheries? Or more importantly do enough want them?

[Phone]

gozzer,

 

When was the last time you fished a commercial?

 

Your description is exactly what a "free" state park is in the US. Exactly what is intended. After all, fishing is a participation sport - not a spectator sport.

 

Phone

[Anderoo]

If you went to a fishery, that had all the amenities that Dales mentioned, and maybe more, but, it had a balanced, natural, and varied stock level.

Would you pay to fish it?

Do you think it would be popular?

 

John.

I doubt such a water would be as popular as more heavily stocked day ticket waters. Natural waters are best fished regularly so you can work them out and make progress, I wouldn't usually bother fishing a tricky water as a one-off. That's why I prefer club/syndicate waters where I can come and go as I please.

 

There is definitely more of an expectation of catching when you've just paid for the day.

[gozzer]

Well it seems that few wanted to answer the questions, especially the ones about making other sports/pastimes easier. I assume that 'dumbing down' football etc, is less appealing, but ok for angling, because, "it's what the people want". The fact that some agree that it's the 'catching', as opposed to the 'angling', is, I suppose, just a sign of the times we live in. Instant gratification for the least amount of effort, and, why put in the effort, if I can buy the experience?

I found Andrews point, "There is definitely more of an expectation of catching when you've just paid for the day." interesting. There was a time when you paid for access to the water, to fish. Whether you caught or not, depended on you, and how you tackled the place. Now 'catching' is more of a commodity that's bought and sold, if you don't catch, then there is something wrong with the fishery, not how you fish it.

I see a time when there will be angling theme parks, where along with the usual over stocked pond, there will be an indoor one for bad weather days. Where you will pay for your fishing by the hour, "come in number 4 your times up". Along side this, will be bars or cafes where you can retire after a hard couple of hours fishing, to play various 'virtual' angling games on simulators. There will be a place set by for casting games, £1 for three casts, and win a fluffy carp if you manage to hit the target. There could be a 'Hook a Fish' game, (like 'hook a duck'), where you pay to have a 6metre pole, and to hook a plastic fish as it floats past. Different points for species, and more points for using a smaller hook. You could then trade in your points for bags of pellets, or fishing hours. Oh, the ideas are endless, and oh what fun could be had in the name of angling. I hope I'm pushing up the daisies when it does happen.

 

Phone, it's more than the 5yrs Brian mentioned, since I last fished one of these places. I was a local mud hole, and I'd heard of catches of good roach. I went a couple of times, and indeed caught roach up to 1lb+. The thing they forgot to mention was that for every decent roach, you had to endure a couple of dozen pond pigs. I went the second time with a couple of ideas I thought might improve the roach to pig ratio, but no chance. I got bored and never went again. The fact that it's so long since I fished one, is of no relevance to my views. Unless of course they have reduced the stock level dramatically, and redressed the balance of species. As I said before, the amenities on offer, have little, or no interest to me, it's what's in the water that does.

 

John.

[Dales]

John, I know the sort of venues a lot of the members who have been around for a few years fish such as rivers and lightly stocked pits etc and know they like a challenge to their fishing and so am not surprised that they have not come up with commercials to recommend.

 

However as these places exist in large numbers I did assume some one goes to them and enjoys it. Based on the replies/recommendations so far I have formed various conclusions.

 

1, Maybe all commercials are rubbish.

 

2, Gozzers work is done and ever one now is enlightened about the evils of commercials.

 

3, Anglers Net generally attracts a better level of angler who enjoys better quality/challenging fishing then other forums.

 

4, Anglers Net is full of crusty old grumpy guys.

 

5, No one likes to own up to their guilty little pleasures.

 

6, We scare off all the new members who start with posts on fishing mud puddle X at the weekedend so what is the best peg, bait, method etc and so they are not around to contribute this sort of thread.

 

Surely someone goes to commercials as they would cease to exist otherwise? Go on tell me your grubby little secret.

[gozzer]

John, I know the sort of venues a lot of the members who have been around for a few years fish such as rivers and lightly stocked pits etc and know they like a challenge to their fishing and so am not surprised that they have not come up with commercials to recommend.

 

However as these places exist in large numbers I did assume some one goes to them and enjoys it. Based on the replies/recommendations so far I have formed various conclusions.

 

1, Maybe all commercials are rubbish. Only grossly overstocked one's.

2, Gozzers work is done and ever one now is enlightened about the evils of commercials. My work will never be done, I've campaigned for the last 30yrs, and will continue to do so, for as long as I can.

 

3, Anglers Net generally attracts a better level of angler who enjoys better quality/challenging fishing then other forums. AN is certainly different to most forums I've seen. There is a wider range of knowledge amongst it's members, and they are not afraid to challenge perceived 'facts', and offer an alternative.

 

4, Anglers Net is full of crusty old grumpy guys. Guilty as charged.

 

5, No one likes to own up to their guilty little pleasures. I don't feel guilty about anything I find pleasurable.

 

6, We scare off all the new members who start with posts on fishing mud puddle X at the weekedend so what is the best peg, bait, method etc and so they are not around to contribute this sort of thread. Some may get "scared off", but those I see as the one's who don't want to listen to anything, other than what they want to hear. If you are confident and happy with the way you fish, then what others say is of little consequence.

 

Surely someone goes to commercials as they would cease to exist otherwise? Go on tell me your grubby little secret. I might have a few " grubby little secrets", like most people, but mine don't involve fishing overstocked puddles.

 

 

John.

Edited August 12, 2013 by gozzer

[Anderoo]

I'm sure that's the case, as I expect you know I am fond of a challenge and am no stranger to plenty of blanks, but when I pay for a day ticket I have different expectations than when I have the freedom to come and go from a club/syndicate water on an annual ticket.

 

Last winter I spent quite a lot of time at a day ticket commercial type water, fishing for perch. Every time I went I expected to catch a decent fish. Sometimes I didn't, and for whatever reason I felt the blanks a lot more keenly than blanks at a club water. A few winters ago, I fished a lot for big perch at a little stream that was on a club book. I had more blanks there than days when I caught, and almost expected to blank on most trips. I didn't mind that, it was part and parcel of the venue and its tricky inhabitants. It shouldn't make a difference, but I'm sure there's some kind of psychological switch that's flicked when handing over cash in exchange for one day's fishing.

 

PS as negative as I've been over the years about commercials, that little pond saved the fishing last winter. I had a lot of fun, learnt a lot of new things, and was very glad of the whole experience.

 

I found Andrews point, "There is definitely more of an expectation of catching when you've just paid for the day." interesting. There was a time when you paid for access to the water, to fish. Whether you caught or not, depended on you, and how you tackled the place. Now 'catching' is more of a commodity that's bought and sold, if you don't catch, then there is something wrong with the fishery, not how you fish it.

[Vagabond]

. It does surprise me a little when we see questions asking about such venues particular when they look or sound like the worse sort of "commercial waters" as I had assumed you just turn up and catch shed loads of fish? I never thought tactics, baits, swims etc are important unless you are trying to catch a certain species or a target fish as these places are designed to be easy to fish and fairly uniform.

 

 

 

Naïve questions from beginners (and even from those who have been fishing a long time) will always be with us. If I feel like it, I try to answer them on the level asked. If I don't feel like it I leave it to someone else. If nobody else has bothered after about a week, then I usually make an attempt.

 

Sometimes several people reply, at a level of complexity that frightens the questioner away for ever !

 

It is nice if one can suggest something relatively simple, the beginner tries it, has success, and has the courtesy to report back. Alas, that all too rare, but IMHO we owe it to our sport to encourage new recruits, both to AN and angling in general - if they stay with us, who knows what valuable contributions they may make in the future.

 

I think there is the element of expecting instant success (which is why they are fishing that commercial in the first place) in some of the questions - like "Wot tactics do I need for the Doughnut pool at Upton Snodgrass?" but I feel there is a genuine desire to learn behind many approaches. It does take some courage for a newby to ask.

 

Sometimes the question itself indicates a lack of understanding - like "What's the best rod for roach ?" when if someone wants to catch roach, the choice of rod is well down the list of priorities. So instead of recommending the MFX 6974 Zimmerflash Super Tripletop, or whatever else is the latest profit area of the tackle trade, perhaps we should offer a few tips on roach fishing.

 

If we leave it to the owners of carp puddles to "educate" their customers, the one doesn't need a crystal ball to realise what the harvest might be.