Jump to content

Commercial Fisheries they can't all be bad, can they?


Dales

Recommended Posts

Bit of a question for those who know about fishery management etc.

 

What would you consider a lightly stocked water? natural stock and over stocked water? At what sort of biomass has it moved over from a natural stocked one. Obviously on some waters you can tell straight away that they contain far to many fish.

 

I am only guessing but I suspect that what most people consider a natural stock is probably a lot higher then a true natural stock as even waters that claim to be natural get tinkered with and often recieve stockings from time to time even if they are a more balanced water then your average carp pool.

Stephen

 

Species Caught 2014

Zander, Pike, Bream, Roach, Tench, Perch, Rudd, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Eel, Grayling, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout

Species Caught 2013

Pike, Zander, Bream, Roach, Eel, Tench, Rudd, Perch, Common Carp, Koi Carp, Brown Goldfish, Grayling, Brown Trout, Chub, Roosterfish, Dorado, Black Grouper, Barracuda, Mangrove Snapper, Mutton Snapper, Jack Crevalle, Tarpon, Red Snapper

Species Caught 2012
Zander, Pike, Perch, Chub, Ruff, Gudgeon, Dace, Minnow, Wels Catfish, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Roach, Bream, Eel, Rudd, Tench, Arapaima, Mekong Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Marbled Tiger Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Thai Redtail Catfish, Batrachian Walking Catfish, Siamese Carp, Rohu, Julliens Golden Prize Carp, Giant Gourami, Java Barb, Red Tailed Tin Foil Barb, Nile Tilapia, Black Pacu, Red Bellied Pacu, Alligator Gar
Species Caught 2011
Zander, Tench, Bream, Chub, Barbel, Roach, Rudd, Grayling, Brown Trout, Salmon Parr, Minnow, Pike, Eel, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Koi Carp, Crucian Carp, F1 Carp, Blue Orfe, Ide, Goldfish, Brown Goldfish, Comet Goldfish, Golden Tench, Golden Rudd, Perch, Gudgeon, Ruff, Bleak, Dace, Sergeant Major, French Grunt, Yellow Tail Snapper, Tom Tate Grunt, Clown Wrasse, Slippery Dick Wrasse, Doctor Fish, Graysby, Dusky Squirrel Fish, Longspine Squirrel Fish, Stripped Croaker, Leather Jack, Emerald Parrot Fish, Red Tail Parrot Fish, White Grunt, Bone Fish
Species Caught 2010
Zander, Pike, Perch, Eel, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Mirror Carp, Common Carp, Crucian Carp, Siamese Carp, Asian Redtail Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Rohu, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Pacu, Long Tom, Moon Wrasse, Sergeant Major, Green Damsel, Tomtate Grunt, Sea Chub, Yellowtail Surgeon, Black Damsel, Blue Dot Grouper, Checkered Sea Perch, Java Rabbitfish, One Spot Snapper, Snubnose Rudderfish
Species Caught 2009
Barramundi, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Wallago Leeri Catfish, Wallago Attu Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Mrigul, Siamese Carp, Java Barb, Tarpon, Wahoo, Barracuda, Skipjack Tuna, Bonito, Yellow Eye Rockfish, Red Snapper, Mangrove Snapper, Black Fin Snapper, Dog Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Marble Grouper, Black Fin Tuna, Spanish Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Redhind Grouper, Saddle Grouper, Schoolmaster, Coral Trout, Bar Jack, Pike, Zander, Perch, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Common Carp, Golden Tench, Wels Catfish
Species Caught 2008
Dorado, Wahoo, Barracuda, Bonito, Black Fin Tuna, Long Tom, Sergeant Major, Red Snapper, Black Damsel, Queen Trigga Fish, Red Grouper, Redhind Grouper, Rainbow Wrasse, Grey Trigger Fish, Ehrenbergs Snapper, Malabar Grouper, Lunar Fusiler, Two Tone Wrasse, Starry Dragonet, Convict Surgeonfish, Moonbeam Dwarf Angelfish,Bridled Monocle Bream, Redlined Triggerfish, Cero Mackeral, Rainbow Runner
Species Caught 2007
Arapaima, Alligator Gar, Mekong Catfish, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Pacu, Siamese Carp, Barracuda, Black Fin Tuna, Queen Trigger Fish, Red Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Honeycomb Grouper, Red Grouper, Schoolmaster, Cubera Snapper, Black Grouper, Albacore, Ballyhoo, Coney, Yellowfin Goatfish, Lattice Spinecheek

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the flip side do we call over stocked waters such just because are expectations are much lower then they should be. It never ceases to puzzle me when I go abroad and find "natural waters" that are packed with fish and they get hammered with fish removal on a daily basis yet if you came across the same amount of fish in a water here anglers would be screaming that its over stocked.

Stephen

 

Species Caught 2014

Zander, Pike, Bream, Roach, Tench, Perch, Rudd, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Eel, Grayling, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout

Species Caught 2013

Pike, Zander, Bream, Roach, Eel, Tench, Rudd, Perch, Common Carp, Koi Carp, Brown Goldfish, Grayling, Brown Trout, Chub, Roosterfish, Dorado, Black Grouper, Barracuda, Mangrove Snapper, Mutton Snapper, Jack Crevalle, Tarpon, Red Snapper

Species Caught 2012
Zander, Pike, Perch, Chub, Ruff, Gudgeon, Dace, Minnow, Wels Catfish, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Roach, Bream, Eel, Rudd, Tench, Arapaima, Mekong Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Marbled Tiger Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Thai Redtail Catfish, Batrachian Walking Catfish, Siamese Carp, Rohu, Julliens Golden Prize Carp, Giant Gourami, Java Barb, Red Tailed Tin Foil Barb, Nile Tilapia, Black Pacu, Red Bellied Pacu, Alligator Gar
Species Caught 2011
Zander, Tench, Bream, Chub, Barbel, Roach, Rudd, Grayling, Brown Trout, Salmon Parr, Minnow, Pike, Eel, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Koi Carp, Crucian Carp, F1 Carp, Blue Orfe, Ide, Goldfish, Brown Goldfish, Comet Goldfish, Golden Tench, Golden Rudd, Perch, Gudgeon, Ruff, Bleak, Dace, Sergeant Major, French Grunt, Yellow Tail Snapper, Tom Tate Grunt, Clown Wrasse, Slippery Dick Wrasse, Doctor Fish, Graysby, Dusky Squirrel Fish, Longspine Squirrel Fish, Stripped Croaker, Leather Jack, Emerald Parrot Fish, Red Tail Parrot Fish, White Grunt, Bone Fish
Species Caught 2010
Zander, Pike, Perch, Eel, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Mirror Carp, Common Carp, Crucian Carp, Siamese Carp, Asian Redtail Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Rohu, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Pacu, Long Tom, Moon Wrasse, Sergeant Major, Green Damsel, Tomtate Grunt, Sea Chub, Yellowtail Surgeon, Black Damsel, Blue Dot Grouper, Checkered Sea Perch, Java Rabbitfish, One Spot Snapper, Snubnose Rudderfish
Species Caught 2009
Barramundi, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Wallago Leeri Catfish, Wallago Attu Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Mrigul, Siamese Carp, Java Barb, Tarpon, Wahoo, Barracuda, Skipjack Tuna, Bonito, Yellow Eye Rockfish, Red Snapper, Mangrove Snapper, Black Fin Snapper, Dog Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Marble Grouper, Black Fin Tuna, Spanish Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Redhind Grouper, Saddle Grouper, Schoolmaster, Coral Trout, Bar Jack, Pike, Zander, Perch, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Common Carp, Golden Tench, Wels Catfish
Species Caught 2008
Dorado, Wahoo, Barracuda, Bonito, Black Fin Tuna, Long Tom, Sergeant Major, Red Snapper, Black Damsel, Queen Trigga Fish, Red Grouper, Redhind Grouper, Rainbow Wrasse, Grey Trigger Fish, Ehrenbergs Snapper, Malabar Grouper, Lunar Fusiler, Two Tone Wrasse, Starry Dragonet, Convict Surgeonfish, Moonbeam Dwarf Angelfish,Bridled Monocle Bream, Redlined Triggerfish, Cero Mackeral, Rainbow Runner
Species Caught 2007
Arapaima, Alligator Gar, Mekong Catfish, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Pacu, Siamese Carp, Barracuda, Black Fin Tuna, Queen Trigger Fish, Red Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Honeycomb Grouper, Red Grouper, Schoolmaster, Cubera Snapper, Black Grouper, Albacore, Ballyhoo, Coney, Yellowfin Goatfish, Lattice Spinecheek

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no biologist, so I won't try to guess at the biomass needed for any given water, I imagine it varies greatly from water to water. My yardstick is that the water should hold a mixed/balanced variety of indigenous species, including preds, and in numbers that are self sustaining. Where there is no need for extra feed, or aerators to enable the stock to exist. It might need a 'tweak' occasionally, to avoid a mass of stunted fish. But if we concentrated on maintaining the quality of the water, and the food it can provide, instead of just adding more fish, then I would be happy to fish there.

 

There would also be less 'leaching' of stock into surrounding river systems, and upsetting the balance there.

 

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it seems that few wanted to answer the questions, especially the ones about making other sports/pastimes easier.

I didn't answer John, because I thought they were rhetorical questions with obvious answers.

 

As for where I choose to fish, it can vary from my local woodland pool (roach and rudd up to a pound if you are lucky, but best of all, no carp) to wading the Caribbean coral flats fly-fishing for permit and bonefish. It is rare indeed nowadays that I fish a commercial, and then only in a selective style for big roach or big perch. I have too many options to fish good waters where there are few, but good, fish. Such fish must be worked for or there is no sense of achievement in catching them.

 

I used to fish a number of commercials with the editor of an angling magazine so as to provide illustrated articles for his mag, but since his death some years back that activity ceased. Good fun whilst it lasted though - all the fishing was free in return for the publicity generated by the articles. I used to go for a mixed bag, he went for perch, and the third member of our group dealt with the carp. These did tend to be the better type of commercials - catering for "pleasure anglers" rather than matches. Some even had carp-free pools ! The fishing was easy in the sense that we almost always managed to get photos and "copy" for the magazine, but these fish had to be worked for - there were often other anglers there that were blanking.

 

After one experience of hauling out pasties for three hours (never again) we did avoid the worst examples of "commercial puddles" - in any case they were far too busy organising "bagging up" (horrible phrase) matches to be in need of publicity for pleasure fishing.

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting topic but flawed.

 

Several members here have stated how they do not like commercial waters but are happy to visit them for the big roach and perch. I have many such waters near me and know, from match anglers reports, of perch too 4lbs in them.

 

I find it easy to resist the temptation to fish for them as I don't feel they are any more natural than the carp or other fish in the pond. They exist within a water that has artificially high levels of prey fish and generally no other predators. A recipe for fast growth rates and as they are not generally being fished for do very nicely on neglect.

 

They wouldn't be there if it wasn't an artificial man made environment.

 

Unlike this

 

image_zps0ef7fb67.jpg

 

At 2lb 2ozs I consider this as good as any commercial 3lb plus fish

 

espescially when it was caught from here

 

image_zps51ff6311.jpg

 

along with these

 

image_zps616a7a3d.jpg

 

 

Suffolk Water Park is quite near me and a biggish water and specimen carp. It is not a stocked water and has big eels roach bream tench and carp. It is dayticket or several day/nights but no season ticket. They have smaller lakes within complex that are match type venues stocked accordingly but the big lake isn't. So this is a commercial because of the way you can gain access but is natural.

 

Google it and see.

 

Incidentally I only have ever fished it for the roach.

 

Oh and forgot too mention this was last sunday and have many more similar catches to prove the point.

 

John

Edited by John Weddup
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes dave there are but they are either stuffed full of tench anglers after them or carp anglers after the big carp that are there aswell.

 

I don't want to join a circus just for a pb. It doesn't mean anything to me. A tench of 6lbs plus from the fens is as good as a 10lb boilie fed fish from a Stillwater. Anglers are so driven by size and I think that's to do with modern carp fishing. I still think the water is important and if you enjoy being there.

 

The above pics were self take and that's the way I like it. Out there me and the wildlife. And being an old fens warrior I am sure you recognise it.

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't answer John, because I thought they were rhetorical questions with obvious answers.

 

They were rhetorical questions Dave, but I hoped that someone would have had a go at answering them. It might have enlightened me, because I have been trying to think of another sport/pastime, that makes the objective easier to achieve, but still hands out plaudits based on those results. I can't think of one, can anyone else?

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you quickly run into dodgy ground when comparing waters and the relative value of things.

 

Many here are familiar with Wingham, and would cite it as a good example of a natural water. However it really is nothing of the sort - dug out initially for gravel, stocked with a few species of fish for the purposes of fishing, and very carefully managed to that end. To be clear, I'm not criticising Wingham at all (if only there were more waters like it!) but it's an easy jump from here to say that a wingham bream has less value than a commercial perch; after all the bream was stocked into a water where it finds it pretty much impossible to successfully breed, just so it would grow big and be a target for anglers. The perch happened to be in the commercial mostly by accident, find it very much to their liking and breed successfully. So is the bream really a more valued capture than the perch?

 

I'm being pedantic I know, but it's an easy example to make.

 

Wild waters and wild fish are very important to me, but if someone asked me now if I would fish commercials for perch again, the answer would be an emphatic yes. However, that's not the only fishing I want to do...but then neither is sitting it out all season on the chance of 1 bream!

 

I would hold a big perch from a rarely fished river that took me a while to work out in higher regard than one from a small pond, but I'd still want to catch both.

  • Like 1

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you quickly run into dodgy ground when comparing waters and the relative value of things.

 

 

Absolutely. It's the difference between fishing to please yourself, and fishing to impress other people.

 

One day I might seek perch from a river, another day from a big gravel pit, and on a third day from a commercial where as you say they might thrive undetected amongst shoals of bait fish. If in my personal opinion a fish is a good one for that particular water, then I am pleased, without worrying about whether or not it is a "better" fish than one of a different weight from a different water caught by someone else.

 

We are anglers, not fishmongers.

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We and our partners use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences, repeat visits and to show you personalised advertisements. By clicking “I Agree”, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. However, you may visit Cookie Settings to provide a controlled consent.