Be warned!

[Peter Waller]

Thanks for the good news Mike.

 

Re dead horses, let the local curry-house know its there, it'll be gone by the morning!!

 

The main objection that I have to canoe access on rivers is one of what comes next? In the case of the Waveney proposal it is effectively connecting the Broads to the Fens. Once canoes are seen 'navigating' what is basically a stream, then please mister, we want to dredge the stream and create a navigable river so we can get our bigger boats on the river. I'm glad that the alarm bells are ringing.

[canoeist and angler]

I hope that I am going to try to promote a balanced view on canoeist/angler debate as I enjoy both canoeing and angling.

 

1. All the scientific work that I have read (and I admit that this is by no means all that has been published) shows that canoeing has no significant impact on fishing. OK, the fish may be spooked by the shape of a boat overhead for a moment but this could equally be caused by a fisherman on the bank or wading or a passing car on a road etc.

 

2. Canoeists do have idiots in their midst who don't care if they upset anglers... but the same is equally true in reverse. When angling I have on occasions come across aggressive canoeists and certainly the same is true vice versa. Moral: treat others as you would wish to be treated?

 

3. When I am canoeing and I come across an angler (a very rare occurance) I will try to paddle in such a way as to avoid their swim and tackle. If I were fishing I would try to indicate by pointing or if possible verbally the area I would prefer that they avoid. 99% of canoeists do not want to upset anglers, our lifes are much easier if we cooperate.

 

4. There is no need to worry about lakes or most rivers being disturbed by canoes if more freedom to access the river is given. Most rivers hold little interest to most canoeists. Those rivers that are used by canoes are usually featured in the online guidebook (www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk) and the editor does post notes from anglers in the river guides if there are particular areas of concern. If you are concerned take the time to express your concerns so that they can be dealt with in a sensible way.

[canoeist_steve]

Firstly, let me state I am a canoeist. I have been for many years and my experience of fishing is all but zero (so excuse any assumptions or ignorance on my part)

 

I have read the preceding posts with some interest and have decided to try to put across the thoughts of an average canoeist.

 

Canoeing is increasing in popularity , partially through increased leisure time but also through developments in equipment quality. This means that there are more and more canoeists wanting to get out onto the water.

 

Out of the 55000km of river in England and Wales (without public right of navigation), canoeists have access to only 812km, that’s less that 1.5%. Much of this 812km restricts us to less than 30 days access per year. (Source: Water based Sport and Recreation, commissioned by Department of the Environment) This 55000km consists of over 500 rivers in England and Wales.

 

The type of canoeists who are keen to see expanded access are those (in general) who wish to paddle of moving or white water. There is no desire to paddle on any Carp lakes or other similar sites. The vast majority are responsible, polite and intelligent individuals, much like the vast majority of anglers. They want to enjoy the countryside through the unique experience of paddling a craft down a river, in much the same way I am sure anglers enjoy taking in the surroundings or wrestling with a catch.

 

What myself and many others can not understand is why canoeists are thought to be a threat to the enjoyment of your sport. We believe that we should be able to enjoy the countryside. We are not so naive to want blanket open access for all rivers at all times, obviously there are situations, at certain times of the year, certain rivers or certain river levels, where canoeists could cause environmental problems. But what about when the river is in spate or other conditions deem it possible.

 

Research has concluded that the passage of canoes does no harm to fish stocks or populations. It may spook them for a minute or two, to them we surely look like an odd coloured log. When I approach an angler on a river, I pass quickly and quietly as far away from him or her as possible. Does my passing ruin the enjoyment of your day?

 

By increasing the extent of river access across the country, the canoeists will be spread fewer and far between than the current situation.

 

As discussed early in the thread, “canoe rallies” do currently occur on a couple of rivers in England and Wales. The reason they exist is that the rivers where they are held have as little as two days a year where canoeists are able to enjoy the river. In order to control the access during these periods, the national governing bodies arrange formal tours or rallies and can hence restrict and control the number of canoeists. With more access there will be no need for such rallies. On small upland rivers, it would take perhaps a minute for a canoeist to pass an angler.

 

More posts look at how “giving an inch will mean taking a yard” Canoeists are not looking at changing any of the river or the environment, the adaption of waterways to accommodate rowing or motor boats will be met with as much resistance from canoeists as I am sure it would from anglers. A canoe does no damage to a river or its immediate environment.

 

Canoeists are looking for reasonable access and to share rivers with other users, in order to enjoy our sport.

 

Please feel free to comment on any of the above. I would like to read and try to understand anglers concerns if you are able to do the same for mine. I think that by increasing communication between the parties, each group will probably find that many of their concerns are unfounded or easily worked around.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts.

 

 

Steve

[kleinboet]

Tell you what boys, I think I am going to buy some 2-3 ounce ledgers and start 'casting' if they appear at my waters.

[kleinboet]

After thinking about all the "rights" of all these canoists are they not breeching the human rights of the owners of waters.

[Leon Roskilly]

Steve,

 

When an angler fishes, they develop a 'relationship' with the water before them, and what is going on in that water.

 

Perhaps carefully feeding a small shoal of shy chub so that they gain confidence to move up to the hookbait.

 

Or observing the lie of a pike, setting an ambush.

 

All of this has been building up a tension, or a rythm of feeding and catching.

 

The angler, if he is any good, will have been carefully building up to his next move. That might mean adjusting his feeding, changing his shotting, applying his angling skill to manage the developing situation.

 

When a canoe passes through, everything changes, and takes time to settle down into a new pattern.

 

Think of a golfer on a green, sizing up a shot, carefully considering what putter to use, considering the breeze, then several runners gallop across right in front of him, destroying the moment.

 

The whole round having built up to that moment - no wonder he's now breaking his clubs and throwing them at the departing runners.

 

Multiply that by a factor of 10 and you begin to understand why the angler on the bank is now seething.

 

Yes, everything goes back to how it was a few moments ago, at least that's how it seems to the canoeist or runner, but it will never be back to how it was before, for the angler

 

Having said that, canoeing is a great way to actively explore the countryside, and anglers and canoeists need to find ways of living together, just as runners wouldn't, in fact, run across a golf course, nor golfers practice on a running track.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Peter Waller]

I both fish and canoe. I live besides the Norfolk Broads, and have done all my life. I have, in my time, instructed hundreds of youngsters in canoes. I love the canoe's ability to explore. I am quite aware that there is little likelyhood of me damaging fish by canoing as such, in open water.

 

But there is one time of the year when it is sickening to watch canoes nosing up into a secluded backwater or shallow bay. This is during our annual close season. Paddles pushing into reeds and weeds can do immense damage to the habitat of breeding fish. High spirited young canoists pushing their craft into the rond do immense damage in disturbing nesting birds. No, its not my imagination, I see it every year, sickening. The ability of a canoe to penetrate into shallow waters can, and does, damage the environment.

 

I have hundreds of miles of navigable water at my disposal, as a canoist I really don't need anymore!

 

The posting by Leon is spot on. Some sports don't mix. Quad bikes and tennis courts spring to mind!

 

And whilst I have the attention of a canoist, please answer me this one. Why do canoists shout at each other? There can be mist on the water, the sun is just coming up. You could hear a pin drop. A perfect summer dawn. Then you hear shouting as two canoists hold a conversation! I can sometimes hear them from half a mile or more away! I really don't want to hear what they did with their girl friends last night! I really don't want to hear the dreaded 'C' & 'F' words every other word! Sound travels over water. I go fishing, I go rowing & I go sailing, in none of those sports do people, within a few feet, shout at each other as canoists do, even canoists in the same blessed canoe! Why? It really can ruin the spirit of a summer sunrise.

 

The question of numbers in potential canoe rallies was actually brought up by the B.C.U.

 

In a nutshell I do not believe that the two sports can mix. Many canoists are high spirited youngsters having a really good time, but that is incompatible with the peace and quiet of angling. Sorry, but there it is, we don't want you.

 

[ 07. January 2004, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[Peter Waller]

Interestingly no response from our canoe friends yet, pity.

[jeepster]

i used to fish a club stretch of the derwent which had a canoe hire centre down stream (i only found this out after i bought the club book!) people would come canoeing up to us, running right through all our lines, it got to the point that i joined another club (ripley and district) with a stretch of the derwent further up stream between two weirs.

now i know these people werent 'proper' canoeists but that just made it worse, cos they had no idea what they were supposed to do on encountering an angler.

further upstream (in matlock bath) is a stretch of the derwent i'm sure a lot of people would like to fish, but noone does, as its popular with canoeists, so we leave them to it, why can't they do the same?

[Peter Waller]

You live by and fish in some incredibly beautiful places Jeepster! Lucky fella.

 

This right of access, this desire for access is fine in principle. But by granting it, it becomes extremely easy to destroy what it was that people wished to enjoy. A large part of the attraction of the Broads is the fact that you can get off the beaten track and find solitude, the fact that it is not always easy to get to is part of that attraction. But in providing more access you open the Broads up to greater numbers, that attraction is then lost forever. The dreaded car parks spring up everywhere so visiting anglers, and canoists, can easily visit areas that were once that bit special.

 

The upper Waveney is that 'bit special', as probably are other areas under threat. Anglers are coming into a bit of flak on this one. Unfair really when you think that we are under attack from a rather smaller lobby group. Perhaps it's time to call on the conservation lobby for help. Opening up the countryside like this is not always in the countryside's best interests.