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global warming?


barry luxton

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Vagabond,

 

I too thought the original picture was to "simplistic" to be of value. However after searching for a "better" one they mostly seem to look fundamentally alike. My "ruse" may have been pretty good communication after all(?). Perhaps you can explain why they are "rubbish" to the layman?

 

And once again, without knowing (remembering) doesn't the Coriolis force have a greater impact on deep water.

 

Phone

Edited by Phone
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Vagabond,

 

I too thought the original picture was to "simplistic" to be of value. However after searching for a "better" one they mostly seem to look fundamentally alike. My "ruse" may have been pretty good communication after all(?). Perhaps you can explain why they are "rubbish" to the layman?

 

And once again, without knowing (remembering) doesn't the Coriolis force have a greater impact on deep water.

 

Phone

It's not a "force" it's an effect. Do you understand the effect of windage n the trajectory of a shell?

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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You have to take Coriolis force/effect into account when firing long range shells unless you want to miss. The same goes for dropping bombs from any significant altitude. Wind will need accounting for with shorter range stuff but if your rounds are going 30-40 miles its really tough to figure out wind effect.

 

What's your point?

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" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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It's not a "force" it's an effect.

It is variously known as "Coriolis Force" and "Coriolis Effect"

 

What you call it in English is less important than how you treat it mathematically. It has the dimensions of force (ie mass times acceleration)

 

I suppose to be pedantic you might call it an apparent force - but the effect is the same as if it were a real force.

 

Do you, Cory, refer to "gravitational force" or "gravitational effect" ?

Edited by Vagabond

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

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I think one of the difficulties people have is that the concept seems at first sight to be counter-intuitive.

 

The Earth's surface is moving more slowly at high latitudes, yet the Coriolis Force is greater, whereas at the Equator, where the surface speed is greatest, the Coriolis effect is zero.

This is where my head exploded gonna have to do some reading lol

Number me with Rage it,s a shame Number me in Haste its a shame

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1. I too thought the original picture was to "simplistic" to be of value.

............. explain why they are "rubbish" to the layman?

 

2. doesn't the Coriolis force have a greater impact on deep water ?

1. A simplified diagram, (like Newts ) is fine, provided it is labelled as such (which I did)

 

However, there comes a point where oversimplification becomes misleading, particularly if presented as an "explanation". I thought your diagram crossed that line.

 

2. Deeper water means there is more of it ! Greater mass, So yes.

 

Coriolis Force experienced by an object = mass of object x speed of object x Coriolis parameter( which has dimensions of "per second")

 

Before you ask, the Coriolis parameter varies with the sine of the latitude. Parameter = sin (latitude) x rate of rotation of earth in radians per second.

 

The observed effect of the Coriolis Force is to deflect objects moving across a rotating Earth.

 

In practical terms it applies to water masses, air masses, aircraft and Newt's (or anyone else's) missiles. However, other influences on moving masses apply. Wind on missiles, wind on water, frictional drag on wind and water, boundaries of oceans, etc etc.

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

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You have to take Coriolis force/effect into account when firing long range shells unless you want to miss. The same goes for dropping bombs from any significant altitude. Wind will need accounting for with shorter range stuff but if your rounds are going 30-40 miles its really tough to figure out wind effect.

 

What's your point?

At the moment I am not trying to make a point, I am just trying to find some common ground with Phone so that I can form some analogies to explain the Coriolas effect to him without having to use any mathematics.

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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Do you, Cory, refer to "gravitational force" or "gravitational effect" ?

I've been taught to call it the gravitational interaction. It is one of the four fundemantal interactions of the universe along with the electromagnetic, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear intractions, however if I were discussing gravity I would call it the force of gravity.

 

The Coriolas "force" is an effect of the earth rotating around it's axis. If the Earth was not rotating around it's axis there would be no Coriolas effect.

 

My physics teacher at school would have given one a rap on the knuckles with a pointer if one had said the Coriolas force though ;)

Edited by corydoras

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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All,

 

Ha ha, well this is getting fun.

Cory,

I was taught differently than you. I was taught The direction dogs turn before lying down (clockwise or counter clockwise) is dependent upon the Coriolis Force. The dog's direction is an effect of that force. The stuff below is cut and paste from the internet. It's on the internet so it must be true. Frankly I have NO idea.

Question:
Coriolis force? Don’t you mean coriolis effect

 

Answer:

No, in a rotating coordinate system, there is a Coriolis force which is as real as any other force in that it causes a mass to be accelerated. (When was the last time you saw Newton’s law say that an effect causes a mass to be accelerated?)

Question:
I was taught that the Coriolis force was not a real force, but a fictitious one. The proof of this is found in the inability of the Coriolis force to do any work.

 

Answer:
It is true that the Coriolis force does no work. Yet, the ability to do work is not a prerequisite for a force. If the Coriolis force were to be disqualified owing to its inability to do work, it would take a number of other well established forces along with it into oblivion. For example, a charged particle, such as an electron, moving in a static magnetic field has no work done on it by that field even though it experiences the magnetic force. Alas, a claim for the fictitious nature of the Coriolis force based upon its inability to do work is an ex post facto argument (one concocted to support a position arrived at for different reason).

 

Phone

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