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Reading back through this thread has confirmed to me the reason why I prefer to fish alone most of the time.

The way that one angling practise is justified by trying to discredit another, is a problem that I have often encountered in all disciplines.

 

I have said this before but, I have been fishing for nearly 50yrs, I take the odd fish for the pot, I livebait, I occasionally use a keepnet and I don't always use an unhooking mat. If in some eyes this makes me a bad angler, then so be it, there are plenty of things I don't approve of, and you know what? I don't do them!

I'm past caring what other anglers think about the way I fish, and those that preach that their way is the only way. What I do is legal on the fisheries I use, and more important I am at peace with what I do, so sod what others think.

 

It proves without a doubt what I and some others have often said, that anglers are their own worst enemy, and if a ban should ever happen it will be with the help of anglers themselves.

 

 

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Guest Rabbit
A bit harsh? Don't you watch fishing programs?.

As for out of touch I can tell you what I saw yesterday on a commercial carp fishery. 80% of the anglers using keep nets. These were pleasure anglers, not match fishermen. keep nets would not be allowed under any circumstance on a trout fishery where fish were to be released.

Fish were swung out to dry hands. (I recently watched those two cretins on Day Ticket and wanted to punch there lights out at their total ineptitude in fish handling. Watching the stupid little one, as opposed to the stupid big one, juggling a grayling with dry hands made me want to spit)

Fish were held up to be photographed, and dropped (why would anyone want a photograph of a 3lb F1?)

Fish were dropped (flung?) into keep nets

Landing nets with fish in were laid onto sandy soil.

And on and on.

This link is to a forum based in the N.E. of Scotland and shows that contrary to your opinion, fish are held in high regard up here.

http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=768.0

Its a sticky at the top of the page.

Some people might find it interesting, it might even jolt them out of their complacency ;)

Oh come off it sport you are taking the moral high ground citing a TV programme or two to condemn coarse angling and its attitude to fish handling. It is not like you portray at all, like I said there is an obsession with correct fish handling, your negative comments serve only to paint anglers as morons. Suggest you drag yourself down here and see for yourself.

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Guest Rabbit
Little wonder you are not taken seriously, that comment just tops a lot of others displaying a painfully narrow outlook towards fishing specifically and people generally.

Really, what I am to think then/? Your attitude from the first post is that your way is the only way, if folks don't agree with you we are condemned as you have described me.

I don't have a narrow outlook to life fishing or people, however what i will do is stand up against bigots and bullies be they male or female. i post what I believe.

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as i said the biggest thing i had to overcome was the mandatory owning of unhooking mats rule brought in by the club ,i suspect it was far easier in the carp brigade as they were standard fare for most anyway.trouble is stockbridge doesnt have carp anglers its a "general" fishery so the regulars tend to be the old and the young starter.

the young were easy if they didnt have one i just gave the kid a note to his parents saying he needed one and next trip it was there.(shows the permit isnt read its in there for all to see)

the old on the other hand were very anti and whilst it took a long time persuading them they eventually complied :thumbs: trouble is theres no rule that enforces their use just the possession of one. most sit rolled up by their chair as new :rolleyes:

i even come across anglers who are fishing without setting up their landing nets (the first thing i do before anything else) i ask them if they caught a tench how would they land them? they cant answer!!!!

whilst the club does its best to safeguard its stock its down to anglers and how can i determine whats suitable to land to "hand" or what needs a net ? i have no power to force these undefined size fish to be landed by net and as most are landed out of my sight how could i advise

we have mandatory tests in pike handling but judging by my own experience its getting near to having a fish handling "test" for all on joining the club!!!!

trouble is the biggest offenders are already in it! some for a lifetime!!!! :(

modern angling has changed you can get a complete kit from argos for the equivalent of a few packets of baccy and buy a licence and your ready to fish ,in the old days (in my experience) it was far to expensive so you used hand downs (no ebay then) and you learnt to fish via a angler who gave you them ,whilst today those tips were not to the best at least you had a bit of tuition unlike today.

i have found line and hooks i wouldnt use for sea fishing never mind trying to catch freshwater caught in trees :angry:

 

some anglers dont take advice ,they use tactics they used in the past ! it isnt the past any more you wont catch modern "crucian" with a size 12 and 4" of float sticking out the water anymore .i advised one soul 3 times on 3 trips he was fishing to heavy when he complained he was only getting knocks in the end i gave up some people cannot take advice just as they wont except rules!!

i'm very laid back with my bailiffs hat on but deliberate bad practice (in my veiw) is common ,i can only "advise" i havn't the power to enforce my opinion just rules.if rules are broken i tell them "advising" them of their mistake but break it again and i come down harder! i'm not out there to hassle them but someone has to enforce the rules otherwise anything can happen.

i get moaned at when i ask for their permit ,"you saw it last time" , "it was seen this morning /afternoon " i ask them would they mind poachers sitting in the next swim catching fish without paying? no they say ! well thats the fooking reason i ask to see their permit :rolleyes:

 

yes angling has progressed toward fish safety but was it the anglers decision or the clubs or the manufacturers? ,did anglers as a body demand knotless keepnets ? did they demand barbless hooks did they demand lead free shot i doupt it just as they resist unhooking mats when the old version becomes scarce they grudgingly use the new!! fish walfare for the majority is in the back of their minds.

 

note i said majority ,theres plenty of souls that treat their catch with respect but it is in the minority i'm afraid! theres anglers and fishermen just as theres always been

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

 

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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Really, what I am to think then/? Your attitude from the first post is that your way is the only way, if folks don't agree with you we are condemned as you have described me.

I don't have a narrow outlook to life fishing or people, however what i will do is stand up against bigots and bullies be they male or female. i post what I believe.

 

Astounding response! This thread, and the similar one about Perch has centered upon the debate surrounding the rights and wrongs of killing and eating fish. I belive that such debates are healthy. I have put forward the case for a sensible balanced approach, and so have most contributors. I havn't suggested that those who don't kill fish are wrong, nor have I called anyone 'deeply stupid' for disagreeing with me, and I havnt argued that anglers in one part of the country don't hold fish in as 'high regard' as they do in another part. you have waded in and said all those things, and top them by saying MY attitude is one of 'my way is the only way'!

 

Who do you see as a 'bully' and can you expand upon your 'bigotry' concern?

"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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Guest Rabbit

i have just deleted a long response in favour of this...i is apparent that those that fish for game fish do not have the same attitude to coarse fish as coarse anglers. That is an obvious fact as is the fact that salmon and trout do not return as well as coarse fish, so the killing of these is acceptable. thus the level of care with coarse fish would not be of the same standard as a non game angler. Why should it be, I have seen in on the Wye, salmon anglers and the owners of the beats do treat coarse fish with contempt, it's human nature, they would rather do battle with a fresh run salmon than an old barbel.

And yes they do kill barbel, but they also allow us coarse anglers on their hallowed waters, and for that I forgive them.

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Guest Rabbit
as i said the biggest thing i had to overcome was the mandatory owning of unhooking mats rule brought in by the club ,i suspect it was far easier in the carp brigade as they were standard fare for most anyway.trouble is stockbridge doesnt have carp anglers its a "general" fishery so the regulars tend to be the old and the young starter.

the young were easy if they didnt have one i just gave the kid a note to his parents saying he needed one and next trip it was there.(shows the permit isnt read its in there for all to see)

the old on the other hand were very anti and whilst it took a long time persuading them they eventually complied :thumbs: trouble is theres no rule that enforces their use just the possession of one. most sit rolled up by their chair as new :rolleyes:

i even come across anglers who are fishing without setting up their landing nets (the first thing i do before anything else) i ask them if they caught a tench how would they land them? they cant answer!!!!

whilst the club does its best to safeguard its stock its down to anglers and how can i determine whats suitable to land to "hand" or what needs a net ? i have no power to force these undefined size fish to be landed by net and as most are landed out of my sight how could i advise

we have mandatory tests in pike handling but judging by my own experience its getting near to having a fish handling "test" for all on joining the club!!!!

trouble is the biggest offenders are already in it! some for a lifetime!!!! :(

modern angling has changed you can get a complete kit from argos for the equivalent of a few packets of baccy and buy a licence and your ready to fish ,in the old days (in my experience) it was far to expensive so you used hand downs (no ebay then) and you learnt to fish via a angler who gave you them ,whilst today those tips were not to the best at least you had a bit of tuition unlike today.

i have found line and hooks i wouldnt use for sea fishing never mind trying to catch freshwater caught in trees :angry:

 

some anglers dont take advice ,they use tactics they used in the past ! it isnt the past any more you wont catch modern "crucian" with a size 12 and 4" of float sticking out the water anymore .i advised one soul 3 times on 3 trips he was fishing to heavy when he complained he was only getting knocks in the end i gave up some people cannot take advice just as they wont except rules!!

i'm very laid back with my bailiffs hat on but deliberate bad practice (in my veiw) is common ,i can only "advise" i havn't the power to enforce my opinion just rules.if rules are broken i tell them "advising" them of their mistake but break it again and i come down harder! i'm not out there to hassle them but someone has to enforce the rules otherwise anything can happen.

i get moaned at when i ask for their permit ,"you saw it last time" , "it was seen this morning /afternoon " i ask them would they mind poachers sitting in the next swim catching fish without paying? no they say ! well thats the fooking reason i ask to see their permit :rolleyes:

 

yes angling has progressed toward fish safety but was it the anglers decision or the clubs or the manufacturers? ,did anglers as a body demand knotless keepnets ? did they demand barbless hooks did they demand lead free shot i doupt it just as they resist unhooking mats when the old version becomes scarce they grudgingly use the new!! fish walfare for the majority is in the back of their minds.

 

note i said majority ,theres plenty of souls that treat their catch with respect but it is in the minority i'm afraid! theres anglers and fishermen just as theres always been

 

Well you are very much on the ground when it comes to observing anglers behaviour.I can report what i see on the rivers, and as far as i can see the welfare of the fish is paramount.

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i have just deleted a long response in favour of this...i is apparent that those that fish for game fish do not have the same attitude to coarse fish as coarse anglers. That is an obvious fact as is the fact that salmon and trout do not return as well as coarse fish, so the killing of these is acceptable. thus the level of care with coarse fish would not be of the same standard as a non game angler. Why should it be, I have seen in on the Wye, salmon anglers and the owners of the beats do treat coarse fish with contempt, it's human nature, they would rather do battle with a fresh run salmon than an old barbel.

And yes they do kill barbel, but they also allow us coarse anglers on their hallowed waters, and for that I forgive them.

 

 

Rabbit, I usually have a lot of time for you, you stand your ground against regular opposition, but you really do ask for it sometimes.

 

What proof do you have that Salmon and Trout don't return as well as coarse fish? I'll tell you, absolutely none, why, because there is none. This is your opinion and is based on what? your opinion. The traditional killing of trout and salmon was because they tasted good, not because they didn't return well. On the Aberdeenshire Dee where I fish over 90% of Salmon caught are returned, mostly voluntarily. The rivers recovery of it's salmon stocks is a great success. I am and always have been a great proponent of catch and release, with the proviso that in appropriate circumstances, where it is legal, acceptable and sustainable, I may take a fish home to eat.

With regard to the handling of fish on TV and at commercial coarse fisheries this is something that I have felt strongly about (and mentioned on here more than once) for years.

I am not taking the high moral ground, or condemning coarse angling, I have done nothing but coarse angling this year. What I am saying is that the standard of fish handling could be vastly improved. What do I base this on? The use of my eyes. It has been forcibly bought home to me during the past few months of coarse fishing on commercial fisheries (sorry Gozzer, but we are not exactly spoiled for choice up here) If the fish handling I have seen and the preoccupation with weighing and photographing everything is repeated across the country, the the standard is abysmal. Want proof? look at the gallery in the website of any commercial fishery and the ranks of photgraphs of the captures. This would be totally unacceptable at any trout fishery I know of.

You may be satisfied that all is well in your little world, but you really should get out more.

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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i have just deleted a long response in favour of this...i is apparent that those that fish for game fish do not have the same attitude to coarse fish as coarse anglers. That is an obvious fact as is the fact that salmon and trout do not return as well as coarse fish, so the killing of these is acceptable. thus the level of care with coarse fish would not be of the same standard as a non game angler. Why should it be,

 

I will sit a while and give others the opportunity to respond to this patent nonsense, difficult as it is to argue with someone carries on unencumbered by evidence, scientific fact or other's experience based opinion.

"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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A weekend off and it's still going!

 

I have to agree with Sportsman, with the rise of commercials and easy fishing (and heavy tackle), fish care and handling has gone downhill. You only have to look at the state of the poor old fish in some of these places (and some club lakes) to see that. Things are better on the rivers, thankfully, and on harder stillwaters.

 

Catch and release by trout anglers is second to none. In most cases even a landing net is not allowed, and the fish must remain in the water at all times. Forceps are used to slip out the (usually barbless) hook.

 

I have no idea about salmon (unfortunately!) but trout, if treated correctly, are hard as nails. I used to regularly flyfish at a place called Halliford Mere in Surrey (here: http://www.hallifordmere.co.uk/ ). It's a catch and release rainbow trout fishery. The fish were in superb condition. I used to love fishing there. Because they were returned they used to overwinter and grow on, and were trickier to catch than idiot stockies. The point is, this is not a good business model if returned trout die.

 

All the trout I catch from my little streams are carefully returned (including two yesterday when I was trotting for chub and dace, greedy things) and all swim off strongly.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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