Reuben Heaton 4000 specimen hunter dial scales weighing oddly?

[philocalist]

Isn't this all a bit academic and largely pointless?

I understnad the desire for absolute accuracy, but for all practical purposes, getting an absolutely 100% accurate reading is virtually impossible, particularly if you want to be really anal and re-weigh something several times.

 

Unless you are going to carry out the procedure in lab conditions, there are simply too many variables that are largely beyond your control, bankside - and particularly so if you are buggering about over increments of an ounce or so - or perhaps much less in the search for that mythical roach

Holding the scales in your hands is enough to virtually guarantee an inaccurate, unreliable reading - dangle the scales from a STURDY support and you WILL get a more accurate reading - perhaps even one that you can repeat ... assuming that fishy stays immobile and there is no breeze!

 

Then of course there is the issue of that nasty wet stuff; no-one weighs a fish bone-dry (hopefully!), and as often as not it's done in a (wet) weigh sling or net. Regardless of zeroing scales, water IS going to drip off a fish / net etc, and cause variations to any subsequent weighings, particularly relevent weighing a fish of a couple of pounds or so rather than some big fat carp.

 

Lets be realistic - all you can ever hope for in 'real' circumstances is an approximation of the weight of a fish ... just some 'approximations' will be more accurate than others!

[philocalist]

Just for a laugh - and the fact it's 3.40am and I can't sleep - I've just hung my Fox Digi's off a very substantial Benbo tripod out in the garage (FOUR degrees centigrade!)

A VERY carefully measured 1 litre of water is giving me bang-on 1000g (1KG) time after time after time. I've got the same degree of accuracy up to 10 litres / 10KG ... gave up after that as it was getting a bit parky

[EdgbastonBreamBasher]

Good to see your digitals giving perfect results.

 

To answer (briefly) some of what you said (as I have banged on about this nonstop) I will say this.

 

When using the Reuben Heaton specimen scales and holding them via a weigh handle (which is one of the methods that are recommended for use in the scales literature) and placing a 2lb weight into a zero'd sling the needle is very still, it is not dancing around and it is very readable and it is weighing 1/2 oz light, upon repeating this type of test across several weights similar results were obtained with the scales consistently weighing 1/2 oz out and rarely were they spot on.

 

Now if the scales are weighing 1/2 oz out before I even start to take into account any of the factors that you mentioned then I am already not accurate before I even begin to take a reading and for a top of the range fishing set of scales with a RRP of £99 I considered this to not be good enough, this however, was maybe just my particular set, I cannot speak of other peoples sets, this is up to them to test themselves, if they want to.

 

But from the conversation I had with Reuben just do not expect dial scales to be bang on across the board, no matter which set you own, as they will not be, and your variance of accuracy will depend on which set you own (1oz - 2oz - 4oz division) and it is not possible to know at which weight any scales are reading correctly or incorrectly without actually testing them.

 

This was news to me, I think naively I expected my scales to be better than that, especially with how most people seem to swear by them and say how accurate they are (have they actually tested their scales before they say this or are they just assuming they are spot on based other people saying how great they are?).

 

The bottom line is (and this is from Reuben themselves) that it is impossible for dial scales to be 100% accurate.

Edited January 8, 2014 by EdgbastonBreamBasher

[EdgbastonBreamBasher]

How about this for a necro post...

OK so I have now owned my Reuben 7000 digitals for 8 years and I do keep an eye on them, they have not yet been serviced, I didn't think they needed it, but perhaps maybe soon.

I still own those very same avery weights in 1lb - 2lb - and 4lb respectively.

So tonight I have just conducted the very same experiments that I did 8 years ago on the same digital scales with the same avery weights... 

Here is what happened...

The 1lb weight gave different readings between 15oz and 1lb approx. This is within tolerance of 1 division but less accurate than 8 years ago.

The 2lb weight did the same fluctuating between 1.15 and 2.01

The 4lb weight was spot on at 4lb.

The combined weight of all three weights is 7lb and they gave me a combined reading of 6lb 15oz.

So all in all they are still 'within tolerance' and I guess you could say 'accurate' although slightly less so compared to 8 years ago.

I only used Duracell batteries, I dont get my scales wet, I keep them warm in a pouch when they are not weighting anything.

Now I must be honest and say that whilst I was weighting my weights if i moved the weight around in the bag it would give different readings, so for example the 1lb weight would settle at 15oz and after the scales said 'hold' I moved the bag a little to recreate the movements of a fish in a sling if you will and this is when they might then read 1lb... the weights did fluctuate a little doing this.

Do I recommend the Reuben Digitals? 

Yes, but... just know that they are only accurate within tolerance and don't take then for gospel.

Lastly a word on the batteries, there was one occasion when I went to use them (they have never faild to turn on in 8 years) but my battery which I was sure was still good actually flashed and displayed 0 bars which meant it needed changing, doing so with a fish in the sack is a bit of a flaff about, like I said I was sure my battery was good, I always keep an eye on these things so be cautious, after all they are completely reliant on batteries and as such this is perhaps their biggest strength (digitals are more accurate in my opinion) but this is also their biggest weakness as they are also far more likely to let you down at the wrong moment.

You pays your money...

PS: If you own a set of 60lb x 2oz division Reubens and so does your mate then both of your sets can be upto 2oz out across any weight and be within tolerance. So if you catch a carp and weigh it and it comes in at 30lb on the button it could in fact be 29lb 14oz or 30lb 2oz.

Now that does not mean you will get the same readings on your mates set of identical 60lb x 2oz division Reubens, on yours it might come in at 29lb 14oz and on your mates it might come in at 30lb 2oz... So there could be a 4oz swing on 2 identical brand new sets of 60lb x 2oz divisions. 

Which (if either) of those weights are correct is anyone's guess, even if you had your scales recalibrated by Reuben themselves they would say they was perfect and within tolerance (which they are).

The best advice is to just stick to weighing on the same set this will ensure consistency if nothing else.

I would always suggest getting a set with the smallest division that you can get to ensure higher accuracy but obviously there is no point getting a set of 30lb x 1/2oz division specimen hunters if you are catching 35lb carp... if you are catching 35lb carp then get the 60lb x 1oz division and not the 60lb x 2oz division if you want better accuracy.

PPS: Reuben Heaton are bringing out a new version of the 7000 Digitals in the next month or so, these can read 33lb in 1/4oz divisions so will be accurate? to within 1/4oz across all weights and as such will be very accurate, keep an eye open for those in the summer of 2022.

Thank you for reading, I hope some of this was interesting and/or informative to someone.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by EdgbastonBreamBasher

[Martin56]

I agree 100% mate, I used to Calibrate Hydraulic Pressure Gauges (& Babcock Chart Recorders) using Deadweight Testers for the Oil Tool Industry from 100 PSI up to 30,000 PSI at Low, Middle & High (so from 25%, 50% & 75% of the scale then back to Zero) And adjust it Including the "Span" if they were out. I aimed for "Dead On" but like you say is not always possible, but were always within tolerance (+/- 5% I think it was in our application) If Not - Sent away for Repair or Scrapped!! (Depending on the value)

Edited May 19, 2022 by Martin56

[EdgbastonBreamBasher]

I honestly think that 'spot on' is something we will just not get at the price point we pay for fishing scales, that includes sets upto £100.

There is something else that I have not included in my 'review/guide' and that is when weighing a fish or simply just testing your scales it is vital to use a sling or bag that actually weighs something so as it can be detected by the scales during the weighing process.

For example, if you place a plastic carrier bag on your scales it may not even move the needle, certainly this is very likely on scales that weigh in either 2oz or 4oz divisions but the bag still weighs something even if it isn't detected and this will be calculated in the total weight of your fish or whatever it is that you are weighing.

When testing my 60lb x 1oz Reuben digitals I use a heavier duty shopping bag, one that weighs 4oz, so I can 'tare' it and get a zero starting weight, a regular plastic carrier bag might only weigh 1/2oz or so but if you are not taking it into account then it's a false reading and for a 26lb 5oz Pike it might not be a big deal but for testing the scales accuracy (which is what this 8 year old thread is all about) then it is paramount to do things correctly.

I have just tested my Reuben Heaton digitals in grams as opposed to ounces and a 4lb weight placed in a tared bag came in at 900 grams approx so my digitals are weighing 1/2oz light at 4lb, but it is not as simple as that... because sometimes they are not reading 1/2oz light at 4lb and we have discussed why this is in previous posts but just to reiterate for you the importance of divisions...

My scales weigh in 1oz divisions, so at any weight they can be 1oz light or 1oz heavy and be within calibrated tolerance, like it or not that's the standard for that division. So sometimes when testing/weighing my 4lb avery weight on the same scales in the same bag in the same conditions (my kitchen with no draught) there can be a 2oz fluctuation in the result (3lb 15oz - 4lb 0oz - 4lb 1oz) and all of those are standard and correct for a 1oz division set of scales.

Which is why I highly recommend getting a set that deals with lower divisions 1/2oz or 1/4oz when species targeted permits their use. 

If I was using a set of 30lb x 1/4oz Reuben Heaton digitals (which like I said are being released this summer 2022) and weighing my 4lb weight it would fall between 3lb 15 3/4oz - 4lb 0oz - 4lb 1/4oz. So a 1/2ounce fluctuation and much more 'accurate'?

For anyone interested in the upcoming Reuben Heaton 7000 digitals here is what they said to me when I contacted them...

Hi Paul, after running the mk1 for a few years we had enough data for what we needed to improve on for the upgrade. We have increased the durability, waterproofing and added some software elements to maintain the tolerance and help combat fish movement in the sling. Essentially the scale has a much bigger brain to differentiate between movement and weigh change. Others items included visible LCD angle and temperature compensation Regards RH

 

PS I do not work or have affiliation with Reuben Heaton, but as they are the industry standard in fishing scales I wanted to share my findings, thoughts, opinions and information about with you as I am sure there are a few people out there like me who this sort of things fascinates and is interesting to read.

Edited May 16, 2022 by EdgbastonBreamBasher

[Martin56]

9 hours ago, Martin56 said:

I agree 100% mate, I used to Calibrate Hydraulic Pressure Gauges (& Babcock Chart Recorders) using Deadweight Testers for the Oil Tool Industry from 100 PSI up to 30,000 PSI at Low, Middle & High (so from 25%, 50% & 75% of the scale then back to Zero) And adjust it Including the "Span" if they were out. I aimed for "Dead On" but like you say is not always possible, but were always within tolerance (+/- 5% I think it was in our application)

Bearing in mind that these Gauges many times more expensive than Anglers scales as required by A.P.I.

Though the Internals are pretty much the same - a coiled spring, a Dial and a pointer!!

Edited May 16, 2022 by Martin56

[Martin56]

Don't be kidded that Digital scales are necessarily more accurate than Analog - It's more that Digital is easier to read.

And Battery strength has a certain Impact re their accuracy!!

In a Club Much when using 2 sets of scales - It is far more Important that the 2 sets are in Sync'.

That said, the weigh nets are wetted only once at the start of weighing in (save for returning fish each peg) 

Good Job we're all mates when there's only an Ounce or 2 in it for the prize money!!

[chesters1]

Theres only a finite lot of strain guage makers so who to know what one is inside any set of scales ,expensive ones could be using the exact same as cheap ones .Not actually used scales on fish since i left my teens i have no problem just catching and putting them back instantly without the delay of hoping that fish is bigger than the last one .This is i  presume being a lifetime lone angler i have nothing to prove to myself .

[Blackbird]

I rarely weigh fish, but perhaps an obvious clonker Barbel, or Roach...the record weight claiming is a bit of a nonsense, given all the hoops you have to jump through to claim, and then the accuracy of the scales?

Most other countries measure fish, which is probably the best and safest way to assess a specimen. 

Not ideal for pot belly Carp, granted.