Bait Boats

[johnhere]

Well as I started this and have been reading all the postings with interest I thought I would post my last posting on this subject. You see I have been thinking about some of you guys reasons against bait boats. Your thinking takes me back to the way I use to think when I started fishing again after about a 10+ year lay off. I thought about carp fishermen as you guys do over bait boats. I did I use to laugh at the Green tents where you had a bed so you went to sleep using bait alarms to wake you up when you had a bite, and then the pods with 2 or 3 special carp rods and those bait runners to give you time to get up and reach your rod…….this is fishing…really that’s not what I called it! O and the rods already made up!

Before when I use to carp fish I used the old silver foil attached to the line about 1 yard away with a candle so as to see the reflection of the foil as the fish ran. (We never thought of back bites). As for sleeping you must be joking that’s what we went night fishing for, we would catch a bit of sleep during the day…..under an umbrella!

 

I moved and joined a local social club and made some friends who all went carp fishing and was invited to join 4 of them for a 2 day session, my first fishing for over 10 years.

By 23.00 they were all in there tents going to sleep or watching there little TV’s. Me on the other spent the night fishing for carp and catching carp using the old silver foil. (Ok I admit using a hair rig borrowed from a mate).

One of them had a carp the rest blanked! (They did have bleeps). I on the other hand had 5 or 6, the biggest was 24lb the smallest around 7lb. (I had to wake a few mates up for scales).

Very soon I joined them and had all the modern (designer) gear. I still think it is a very lazy way of fishing but I do enjoy it and most times I stay awake all night grabbing some sleep during the day.

I can’t believe the gear I carry now, in fact so much that I have to use a barrow!

 

I personally think bait boats are ok on some waters. No I do not use them all the time. I fish we 3 rods and probably only use my boat to put one rod out, sometimes maybe 2 (Unless I am fishing the swims with the overhanging trees). And of course I find them great for putting bait out just where I want it. As for upsetting other anglers I have never had a problem

BUT one thing I do know. For every angler who uses a bait boat and upsets a fellow angler there must be more than 20 who upset people with their bait alarms. They really do get my back up. Is there any need to have them turned up so dam high? And why don’t they turn the dam things off when setting up there rods and swingers. I fish with mine on nearly the lowest settings (If there is no volume control put tape over the hole) and use a remote next to my ear when I go to sleep. I don’t mind so much when they get a run, it adds to the excitement. But when they fiddle and play with them…………………xxxxxxxx

[peter mccue]

Your third paragraph if taken seriously would surly mean that the hair rig and all other self hooking rigs are by your own definition a" drop down the ladder of achievment" and "taking the easier less skilfull route"

Surely you should be sat watching a float or touch ledgering since this requires that YOU and not the terminal tackle do the hooking,after all what more basic skill is there in fishing then hooking a fish.

 

 

Take it as seriously as you wish Devonian,

 

Your point about the hair rig is well taken, but in order for it to perform it's function well as a self hooking rig, it needs to be thought about carefully in relation to the many different fishing situations we find ourselves in. Of course if you're talking about Carp puddles where the Carp literally have to fight to gain enough food, then clearly the 'rig' appears to work without the need for any noticeable skill. However, where Carp have a reasonable chance to be discernible about food & rigs it's not unusual to find the semi-fixed bolt rigs becoming increasingly ineffective if fished without thought. Consequently, I see it as an improvement in tactics which is valid, as opposed to a complete removal of a skill (casting) as in bait boats.

 

Your logic that the point I made means the ultimate skill therefore lays in the fishing tactics of yesteryear, is way off the mark I'm afraid. All the superb advances made in rod design, reel technology, lines etc have meant that we can now utilize the skills we have to a greater advantage i.e. cast further, more accurate, increased delicacy. We haven't done away with any skill we've just got better tools to do it with.

 

Bait boats are not a step forward for fishing, but a step back.

[peter mccue]

John,

 

Certainly agree with a lot of the points you made in your last post, session Carping, lazy fishing...it certainly can be! but also enjoyable.

 

As for the skill level, well a huge chunk of those session guys don't even begin to match some of the day only guys I've fished with, & seen fishing. A small amount of time & a desperate need for a Carp, often produces a fisherman who pays immense attention to detail to maximise his chances. Judge him by his results though & he wouldn't come close to the long stay guys, such is life.

 

As for the alarms on full volume...don't get me started!

[johnhere]

John,

 

Certainly agree with a lot of the points you made in your last post, session Carping, lazy fishing...it certainly can be! but also enjoyable.

 

As for the skill level, well a huge chunk of those session guys don't even begin to match some of the day only guys I've fished with, & seen fishing. A small amount of time & a desperate need for a Carp, often produces a fisherman who pays immense attention to detail to maximise his chances. Judge him by his results though & he wouldn't come close to the long stay guys, such is life.

 

As for the alarms on full volume...don't get me started!

 

 

I think you have taken some of my points wrong. I think the hair rig is a fantastic advancement, as are the rods... I was meaning the whole set up of modern carp fishing as opposed to years ago. No one has made any remarks about the tents (sorry bivies), the bed chairs the bait runners and the bite alarms to wake you up or the 3 or 4 rod set up! As I said I soon got all the modern gear and as I said I love carp fishing. I think I just go along with Chris Yates thinking (I think he knew how to catch carp) and his views. Anyone who watched the BBC program (the best bar far fishing program ever made) A Passion For Angling will know what I mean. (I bet he would be against bait boats).

A lot of my carp fishing was done free line by the way and the touch method. My favourite way to catch carp is off the top and that includes using fly fishing gear.

Anyone who enjoys this method should give it a try…..you are in for a treat! Casting a dog biscuit where a carp rises and it takes the bait is a fantastic thrill and skilful.

Let me ask you this, the guys that are against bait boats. Your local water or part of it is impossible to fish because of overhanging trees and bushes but has some lovely carp in it, and no, you can’t cut them down! Are you really telling me you would not consider using a boat, you would rather go home? If the trees were not there you would have no problem casting to the fish. But they are and you can’t! Well that’s when I use a boat!

Oh and I do remember not many years ago there was a competition between carp guys and match fishing guys. The Match guys thrashed the carp guys!

I do think we make carp fishing more complicated than what it is. We call some waters hard and the carp are very crafty. But really there are not many carp in the water for a start. Others waters are full of carp but they are hard to catch. I was one of 12 invited to fish private water for 3 days and nights, and had never been fished and was full of big carp. Catch them? No way, they were just not interested in whatever bait we tried! And these had never been caught! You could have netted the dam things as they were happy to swim in front of you. Most of the carp guys were very experienced carp anglers. That water has not been fished since as far as I know and never will be.

Why at some waters carp take off the top? Others they don’t?

Of course there are some fantastic carp guys out there with tremendous skill and the more skill you have the more fish you will catch.

Would I go back to my old days? No Way! I am too dam lazy and now need my sleep lol.

I have enjoyed reading your comments it’s been interesting. No we will never agree but it would make interesting chat round the lake. In the end you fish the way you feel comfortable with.

Tight Lines Guys.

[Wordbender]

Let me ask you this, the guys that are against bait boats. Your local water or part of it is impossible to fish because of overhanging trees and bushes but has some lovely carp in it, and no, you can’t cut them down! Are you really telling me you would not consider using a boat, you would rather go home?

 

Yes.

 

That's just me, though. If I couldn't lure them to a baited area I could cast to, I'd choose not to fish rather than use a bait boat. It's all about overcoming challenges in a way that suits me, rather than going for a no-skill, techno-fix.

 

As I say, I do my own deals with myself and we get along fine.

[RobStubbs]

I have to say I'm a bit like Wordbender and would prefer not to fish in said water - or rather fish around the problems. I will climb trees and carry baited rigs with me and lower them into the water rather than set them off in a boat - which would be a 100 times easier. That is the type of thing that appeals to me far more than a bait boat. That said I have used real boats to help me fish - both in landing weeded fish (UK) and baiting up / dropping rigs (on big foreign waters).

 

At the end of the day it's all a matter of personal choice and what does it for you. I fish the way I do because it satisfies me and gives me what I want out of fishing (except more carp would be nice ). What other people do is entirely their choice and if they are happy with their fishing then that's perfectly fine in my book.

 

And don't forget, to a lot of people fishing is far, far more than just catching fish.

 

Rob.

[peter mccue]

I think you have taken some of my points wrong. I think the hair rig is a fantastic advancement, as are the rods... I was meaning the whole set up of modern carp fishing.

 

 

 

 

John, my reply about the hair rig was to a pevious post by Devonians not your post.

 

However while I'm here your point about the overhanging trees. well I'm another one who would attempt to get as close to the trees as possible by casting, & believe me with a bit of effort & technique you can get within inches of the branches, but I would not use a boat because I simply couldn't value the capture, which somewhat defeats the whole point in my mind.

[bivyman]

It matters not a jot what others think to me using my boat,they are not the be and end all but can be an advantage and a useful tool,same as alarms to wake you up,bedchairs to lie on,line not cat gut,pva ect,i can understand the argument when people abuse them and take baits accross others swim or too near snags ect but if used in your own area and no carp are at risk i cant see the argument.

 

If you dont like them dont use them and if you do then get one its as simple as that

[johnhere]

I think you have taken some of my points wrong. I think the hair rig is a fantastic advancement, as are the rods... I was meaning the whole set up of modern carp fishing.

John, my reply about the hair rig was to a pevious post by Devonians not your post.

 

However while I'm here your point about the overhanging trees. well I'm another one who would attempt to get as close to the trees as possible by casting, & believe me with a bit of effort & technique you can get within inches of the branches, but I would not use a boat because I simply couldn't value the capture, which somewhat defeats the whole point in my mind.

 

The lake I fish you could not get near to place your bait in the required place. First there are two islands facing each other leaving a channel down the middle and both with large, no massive old trees with low branches x- crossing each other with the lower branches no more than 10ft max above the water and 3ft min. plus on the both sides of the swim continuing along the main bank. The maximum you could fish out in the swim is about 8ft. As I said in one of my previous posts these 2 swims were never fished because it is impossible to cast or place your bait. No you cannot climb the trees it is against the club rules and even if you could it would mean using a boat to get to the islands but then you might as well row out and place your baits so you might as well use a bait boat!

Hence this is where bait boats come into there own. I know for a fact if the tress were not protected the braches would have been cut down.

There is a well know tackle shop group in South London who own waters in Norfolk. On one on the lakes if you don’t use bait a boat to fish under the bushes on the far side (out of bounds) you will not even get a take. That’s why they hire them!

 

As I have said and will keep saying it. Bait boats have there uses. No not on every water but waters like my local lake where there is a need. I go fishing to catch fish. I always have and always will is that not the aim? Sure if I don’t catch I have still enjoyed myself but far more if I can go home having caught a fish!

If you are against boat then that’s fine but as long as the guys using them are not interfering with your fishing don’t knock the guys using them. Good anglers are they ones who do not interfere with others in any way….including those dam loud bite alarms! Oh and bright lights, radios and shouting (unless you are calling for help).

 

Anyway can someone come up with something else we can all get our teeth into?

[devonian]

Peter

I am not saying i am against hair rigs or any other type of self hooking rig but your philosophy regarding the erosian of skill levels does. The over-riding point of all "new" (rehashed) rigs is to a. fool the fish into picking up the bait and b. make sure the fish cannot eject the hook without hooking itself. there by reducing a huge amount of the skill factor. That is all modern session carping is about that and time to burn. Day session guys NEED to think things out far more then long stay anglers. There would be no long stay anglers without the hair rig, the bite alarms and the boilies and the other inovations that have moved things on. I have a bait boat but i rarely use it, in fact i only use it on one lake i fish which is fringed on one side with overhanging trees. I don,t want to leave tackle hanging in the trees to harm other wild life but i do want to fish over there. So i use a bait boat, silly thing is that most of the anti bait boat brigade would not bat an eyelid if i rowed across in a boat and placed my baits and freebies, that is hypocracy! plain and simple!!