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What are we doing to our young?


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Yes, It can be very worrying, and they can go wrong even after a decent upbringing. The case of my own son is an example of this. He was introduced to fishing at an early age, I have a picture of him at about 8 years old with his first lure caught Pike, he had taken sea trout on his own before leaving primary school. Learned to cast a fly, and how to fill a livebait bucket using a whip. Now in his 20s and has his own place and a perfectly good 13' boat. You can imagine my horror when I recently discovered a stash of substances in his garage, bags and bags of different coloured round balls, and plastic bags of strange looking powdered stuff, some bags has 'boilies' written on them and the powder bags things like 'ultra bait',' top mix' and one even said 'hash'!...it would appear that somone is actually commercially producing this rubbish! I found an army bergen packed with paraphanalia to go with the stuff, a bivvy, electronic bite alarms, 'rig tubing (ugh), baiting needles, hair rig hooks and fancy digital scales. I looked at his e bay to find that he has been selling off some of his pike lures to buy more of this stuff! It got worse, you may imagine how my head reeled and stomach churned to find a picture of him clutching a great big fat ugly carp at what was clearly some seedy commercial fishery where blank eyed cammo wearing dead beats pass money from their shaking hands to the 'fat cats' who set up this sordid practice.

 

Mum?

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It would be bad from our perspective. But you missed the point.

 

I didn't miss the point at all. I was being funny.

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Do you have any evidence to support this argument?

 

Even though I share your concerns for the future of "angling as we know it" MC (well how some of us know it!) Ive got to say that the coment about our rivers etc being overcrowded if we didnt have comercials is a bit daft! Our rivers have been nigh on deserted in recent years compared to the 70's and 80's admitedly. But I honestly believe that either less people go fishing on a regular basis now or there are simply more waters available now, Even a lot of still waters and comercials are empty in comparrison.

 

Ive only started to fish at weekends again quit recently.After decades of fishing all but extremely private waters mid week I was utterly amazed at how empty the banks are at the weekend compared to when I did most of my fishing over them.

Edited by BUDGIE

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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I had my first session fishing for coarse fish on a commercial lake with a relative.I caught 3 carp of about 5lb+ on a waggler,and it was amazing i also caught many roach of about 4oz.I have been fishing now atleast 2 times a week since for about 3 years and i like to fish for the smaller of the spiecies now on club waters where there is not the density of fish,and is more taxing on the cells,but that is down to my choice now and my anglersnet education.To read you guys posting post and answers to questions i haven't even thought about asking yet it's amazing.I'm 38 and wished someone had taken me sooner i now take my young sons which is a thrill in itself they only catch small stuff on a whip but hey it gets them stoked.everyone out there fishing should take a friend or family member to any type of lake commercial private club or syndicate for any species just make sure they catch something,and get them hooked on fishing.

 

love all fish and there fishermen :D

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You'll not find a whole lot of that on AN Emma, your more likely to be assaulted by Strawmen, Ad Hominem attacks, Appeals to Authority, Special Pleading, Anecdotal Evidence, Observational Selection, Appeals to Ignorance, Non Sequitors, Slippery Slope Arguments, Argument from Adverse Consequences, False Dichotomies, Statistics of Small Numbers, Weasel Words with the odd Red Herring thrown in for luck.

 

And then there is passive aggression :D

 

It's all psychology really. If you study any conversation deeply enough you'll find some of the above somewhere.

 

I didn't miss the point at all. I was being funny.

 

I beg your pardon

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I do feel I need to make the point again.................Kids (or anyone else ) don't need to have any gtounding in tiddler catching in order to become proficient anglers in their chosen branch of angling. No one seems to suggest that kids need to start off with tiddlers when they are sea fishing....some kids never ever get to see a coarse fish. Likewise many never see a sea fish or a Trout.

 

What is it that is so good about catching tiddlers that "stands them in good stead" and "gives them a good drounding) ?

 

I am tempted to suggest the opposite is true in a lot of cases, and I would hazard a guess (please note I said guess) that if they were only offered the chance to spend a couple of years "learning their craft" then many would never make it to the next stage where they begin to savour the excitement of the hunt for specimens.

 

I have heard many say they are not interested in big fish, but they will always proudly tell you about the biggest they have caught, even (dare I say it) showing the pics................and even worse, putting them on the internet :)

 

Some of you have commented on the lack of anglers on our rivers........................perhaps many of todays anglers (not just the young 'uns) don't want to have to search for their fish. They want to catch fish every time they go fishing.

 

I see a turnover of members every year even on quite heavily stocked waters. Most new guys come with the hope of a lot of big fish, some get their wish, others move from lake to lake (ending up on "the runs water" ). Having failed there they drift off never to be seen again. Others arrive in October on a half year ticket...why? you may ask. Probably because they have struggled on other waters and are looking for a couple of fish to save a blank season.

 

What they make of me using my maggot method feeders and trying to catch a decent Roach "on a carp water", god only knows :)

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

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Hi everybody, I'm back. (been off line for a week or so due to a lightening strike frying my modem <_< )

 

It's good to see my favourite topic has resurfaced, (and is bubbling along nicely without me :D ).

 

The 'commercial boom' has changed the whole angling scene, whether this is thought of as good or not, is largely down to your approach to angling.

I am of the opinion that it is bad, and can be the ruination of angling as many of us know it.

One of my main concerns is that it takes away the choice for many of us.

The hyped up commercialism of angling, backed up by the angling mags and the 'celebrity' endorsements, has created a preference for 'easy' fishing among many newcomers.

(Strange to see some comments obviously against match angling, but pro' over stocked commercials, when they were built to accomodate match angling in the first place).

The big associations used to provide access to many waters for many anglers at a very reasonablley priced yearly subscription.

The advent of the 'easy' commercials saw a drop in the membership, and with that a drop in revenue, and with that a loss of waters. This in turn caused another drop in membership and the cycle continued, with my local association going from a membership of around 10,000 to around 3,000. The waters they lost are now in the hands of small private clubs or syndicates, so now out of bounds for most anglers. But some still seem content to pay the same for 4-5 visits to one water as they did for a yearly subscription to have access to 40 or more mixed fisheries. (A concept that I've never understood :blink: ).

 

The next thing is the "youngsters can catch big fish now" opinion. Yes they can, so much so that many look down on 'lesser' fish, and fisheries. I've met plenty that scoff at waters that only produce carp up to 5-6lb, ignoring the shoals of roach to 1lb plus, or beautiful rudd of similar size. They're not worth bothering about.

So, soon after starting fishing they get double figure carp from waters stocked to bursting point with them. Where do they go now? Carry on catching the same 'easy' fish? Move to a harder water? If they move to the harder water, what experience have they got to help them in their quest? None.

So they either go back to the 'easy' water, or lose interest in this 'crap' fishery, and drift in and out of angling.

 

Then we have the less obvious, but IMO the biggest threat to angling. The over spill of fish from these waters into the surrounding systems. Every year thousands of fish escape from these 'fisheries', (more so in the last couple of wet summers). Anyone who thinks that this doesn't have a negative effect on resident species are kidding themselves. The sudden influx of catfish, carp or any of the other mongrel fish present, is bound to effect the balance of any water.

 

Someone said that this will become the norm' and then anglers will know no difference. Maybe this is right, but it will have been forced on angling by the commercial interests of a few, and the naivety of those who believe all the hype surrounding these waters.

As I've said on here before, if ever these waters become the norm' and they are all that are available, then angling will already have 'died' for me. And then (after nearly 50yrs) I will hang up my rods for good, because the reason I fish (to enjoy myself) will have gone.

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Emma - Just a quickie and then i'll shut up. My local water will NOT allow keepnets, any fixed bolt rigs, barbed hooks or hooks over size10. The water is NOT advertised, and only people known to the present owner are allowed. People who do fish it are allowed to bring others, but if the don't obey the regs, both they AND the person bringing them will be banned! The £5.00 charge for fishing goes into maintenence of the water.

You are allowed to fish if you care for the fish!!!

Edited by kleinboet

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fishing is nature's medical prescription

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Emma - Just a quickie and then i'll shut up. My local water will NOT allow keepnets, any fixed bolt rigs, barbed hooks or hooks over size10. The water is NOT advertised, and only people known to the present owner are allowed. People who do fish it are allowed to bring others, but if the don't obey the regs, both they AND the person bringing them will be banned! The £5.00 charge for fishing goes into maintenence of the water.

You are allowed to fish if you care for the fish!!!

 

Thanks for taking the time to write that post to me, but I'm not sure why it's considered relevent to anything that I have said, and thats not being either sarcastic or quarrelsome. I'm unsure about why hooks size 10 is significant, and I am firmly in the 'no to barbless hooks' for Perch fishing (smallest hooks I own, other than those tied as flys are size 6), but that debate is not part of the point of this thread, and maybe you dont have Perch and Eels in it? I think you initially pulled me up for my attitude towards commercial fisheries, despite it being purley my attempt at a bit of humour. The water you describe doesnt sound like a commercial, more like an exclusive, where one need to know the right people in order to wet a line.

"Some people hear their inner voices with such clarity that they live by what they hear, such people go crazy, but they become legends"
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I do feel I need to make the point again.................Kids (or anyone else ) don't need to have any gtounding in tiddler catching in order to become proficient anglers in their chosen branch of angling. No one seems to suggest that kids need to start off with tiddlers when they are sea fishing....some kids never ever get to see a coarse fish. Likewise many never see a sea fish or a Trout.

 

What is it that is so good about catching tiddlers that "stands them in good stead" and "gives them a good drounding) ?

 

I am tempted to suggest the opposite is true in a lot of cases, and I would hazard a guess (please note I said guess) that if they were only offered the chance to spend a couple of years "learning their craft" then many would never make it to the next stage where they begin to savour the excitement of the hunt for specimens.

 

I have heard many say they are not interested in big fish, but they will always proudly tell you about the biggest they have caught, even (dare I say it) showing the pics................and even worse, putting them on the internet :)

 

Some of you have commented on the lack of anglers on our rivers........................perhaps many of todays anglers (not just the young 'uns) don't want to have to search for their fish. They want to catch fish every time they go fishing.

 

I see a turnover of members every year even on quite heavily stocked waters. Most new guys come with the hope of a lot of big fish, some get their wish, others move from lake to lake (ending up on "the runs water" ). Having failed there they drift off never to be seen again. Others arrive in October on a half year ticket...why? you may ask. Probably because they have struggled on other waters and are looking for a couple of fish to save a blank season.

 

What they make of me using my maggot method feeders and trying to catch a decent Roach "on a carp water", god only knows :)

 

Den

 

Agree with most of that Den

 

I get p**sed off with seeing kids throwing cheap lures around with no traces, no landing net and no unhooking equipment and seem to display a completely clueless attitude. I have asked one of these anglers what he would do if he caught a big pike....all I got was a shrug of the shoulders!

 

IMO I'd be much happier is these people would a. Stay at home on the X box b. go tiddler bashing instead or c. (the more sensible option) go with someone who can give them a bit of tuition etc and with the right equipment.

Edited by Neil G
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