What are we doing to our young?

[Guest Rabbit]

This one is your speciality Neil.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

Really!!! ...much too much time on your hand me thinks.

[Steve Walker]

Wikipedia Oh thanks, like I really care anyway

 

Like a more erudite Vikki Pollard! Face? Bovvered?

[Guest Rabbit]

Like a more erudite Vikki Pollard! Face? Bovvered?

 

Exactly Mucker

[Anderoo]

Also I guess it's probable that many who use commecials would not migrate to the rivers and lakes if the commercials closed

 

Blimey, an on-topic post.

 

I agree with you MC, I don't think the harder waters or the rivers would suddenly be awash with people if commercials closed. There would probably be an initial spike, but after that I bet it would go back to previous levels. If you're used to 50lb bags of fish, catching 5lb from a river is like failing to catch 45lb. Whatever you're used to and have grown up with is 'proper fishing', and for people who have grown up with high stocking levels and easy fishing, scratching around on a river for a few bits isn't proper fishing.

 

It works the other way too, of course - if suddenly all the rivers became out of bounds, I'd expect the commercials would initially be much busier, and then gradually die back down to previous levels. For people who have grown up with working hard to eek out a few fish, constantly landing carp after carp until your arm hurts isn't considered proper fishing.

 

No guesses for what 'proper fishing' will mean in a generation though, surely?

Edited August 21, 2008 by Anderoo

[Dick Dastardly]

The biggest shame is that people cant seem to be able to enjoy both types of water (natural and comercial) and keep them in perspective.

 

I cant say that I fish commercials that often but I suppose three or four times a year.I normally go when the conditions are poor but I feel the need to fish. I quite enjoy catching small carp on my match rod or pole,nice easy fun fishing. But I wouldnt want to do it every day! But saying that I dont mind struggling on a hard day on the river but once again wouldnt want to do that every day either!

 

Without sounding big headed suppose that Im lucky that the years have given me enough knowledge to be able to get good catchs on most venues.I say this as this is maybe what gives me the luxurey of chosing to fish different venues.

 

Its easy enough to understand why some one who has only fished commercials would not like the comparitively poorer (because its harder?) fishing on natural waters.I dont understand why the catch levels alone would stop people fishing rivers though.The attraction of the rivers is surely the simple fact that the things flow! and different methods such as trotting are used.

 

As I said earlier I soon get bored of doing the same thing (its irrelevant how much you catch as surely catching 100lb of carp every time you go fishing becomes just as boring as it would be if you fished a river and caught 3 barbel every trip?) to many times so maybe anglers who fish regular enough to become "bored" of the commercials will try pastures new? And the guys who only fish a handfull of times each year? well I can understand why they want to fish some where easy obvious aint it? And can we blame them or does it really matter?

 

Ive discussed it many times before that ny only worry about commercials is that due to their very nature they may set a precidence.All waters being turned into them because "thats what people want" or maybe what they will pay for.

 

Not fanciful either as I can name a couple of good natural waters that have been turned into instant commercial "big" carp waters and also a few small club venues that are managed/stocked on exactly the same lines as commercial carp match waters.

 

As we always say please lets have the choice both ways!

[poledark]

There seems to be an assumption that people who fish "commercials" are beginners and newcomers. Go there on a weekday and you will find that most are getting on a bit, most have done their time on rivers, and now they just want a chance to pull out some of the sort of fish they struggled to find when they were younger.

 

Many of them take the grandkids fishing..................not to where they will struggle to even get a bite, but to the sort of place most could only imagine existed when they were young, and they will become the future of angling. Some may never catch a tiddler in their life........would that be such a loss?

 

Den

[Anderoo]

Some may never catch a tiddler in their life........would that be such a loss?

 

If by tiddler you mean an 8oz dace, or 1lb roach, or 2lb perch, or a grayling, crucian, etc, I'd say yes!

 

Also, when people immediately start catching big fish, they're often unable to deal with them properly. No assumptions there, go to any heavily fished, well stocked lake and see for yourself... I think there's a lot to be said for building up to the biggies, not least for their own welfare.

[poledark]

8oz Dace....1lb Roach........2lb Perch ??? They aren't tiddlers, they are quality fish, but they are not very common in most rivers and "wild" ponds.

 

If that sort of fishing was more common then perhaps some of the younguns may be tempted, but not for long. As soon as they get into a tackle shop, or read a magazine/weekly, then they start to see big fish. And for almost all of them big means Carp.

 

I have spent the last three weeks with my maggot and method on a big fish water. Most think of it as a big carp water, but I have discovered it contains huge shoals of Rudd averaging 10/12 oz aand fewer but bigger Roach (not had one much under a pound) Young guys, old guys all watching me pulling them out all day, some interested enough to ask the why's and how's, but not one of them will actually give it a go. They want big fish.

 

It's not the difficulty that puts them off, it is the size. I really don't think they would be interested if I was pulling out 3lbers all day, in fact, I doubt if many of them even know the record size of a Rudd or Roach, they are just not interested.

 

I suppose I really should be grateful, all those lovely fish and only me catching them :)

 

Den

[Dick Dastardly]

Young guys, old guys all watching me pulling them out all day, some interested enough to ask the why's and how's, but not one of them will actually give it a go. They want big fish.

 

It's not the difficulty that puts them off, it is the size. I really don't think they would be interested if I was pulling out 3lbers all day, in fact, I doubt if many of them even know the record size of a Rudd or Roach, they are just not interested.

 

I suppose I really should be grateful, all those lovely fish and only me catching them :)

 

Den

 

But is this obsession with size purely due to the modern mindset /hype of carp? ie itscool to catch big carp but "tiddlers" are for noddies?

 

If they wanted to only catch big carp for genuine reasons I would be a lot happier.Im sure most want to though purely as its the "done thing" ?. An awfull lot of "instant" big fish anglers I know have been quite suprised at how much fun catching other (smaller) species on lighter tackle can be.........but like you said they often seem "embarrased" to do so in front of their contemporys!

 

I have to disagree on the "no tiddlers no loss" thing though.Anderoo mentioned my main reason ie the learning curve. I think you learn the basics of angling a lot quicker with "tiddlers" than you possibly can with specimen fish simply because you catch more and quicker.All though it could be quite reasonably argued that match style comercials will do that even better than "natural" waters especially in regards to playing fish on light tackle.I suppose we have to acknowledge the difference between the two types of commercial coarse water ie match and specimen.

 

Den out of interest do you still have the odd "tiddler bashing" session? And by that I dont mean specimen style fishing for the smaller species.

[poledark]

Last time I tried actual tiddler fishing was to get some livebaits, on the pole...............club rule stated max of 6". First one I caught was a 1lb 10oz Roach, and I really struggled to get any small enough.

 

Chairman of the club (Dartford and District) was surprised at what I was catching and commented on the size

 

Once again, this was on a top carp water, and I doubt if even a handful of the members knew the potentia

 

The problem (if there is one) is that I catch a few carp, quite a lot of Tench and Eels. Most of the lakes have a lot of weed as well. Even had my PB Pike on the maggots and method, so I use carp tackle. Doesn't spoil my pleasure one bit, but probably costs me a lot of Roach. The number of missed bites is about 5 to 1, most are the violent snatch I associate with decent sized Roach (they don't half hit you hard :) ).

 

Every time I change tactics i.e. smaller hook fewer magots, bigger hook lots of maggots big hook few magots etc etc bloody etc, I think I have cracked it A quick couple or three fish and then the missed bites start again

 

Great fun, actually absolutely absorbing..............and I can't wait for a few more years growth

 

Seems I have just made a very strong case for learning to catch "small" fish :)

 

Den