choo choo, Fairbrass edits his comments!

[gozzer]

I like that idea but the reality is once man gets involved it will not be in the best interest of the enviroment, oddly those fish would rather not get caught at all. There are very few waters run with a major consideration to what is best for the local ecosystem and environment. The best thing anglers can do for the enviroment is not go fishing.

 

As far as I know Fairbrass has not ruined any waters yet, all that lack of choice that he is often blamed for has been done by others. He may well be a member of a few clubs but it was not him voting to dump a tonne of F1's and skimmers in to hundreds of club waters up and down the country trashing loads of mixed fisheries. Angling managed to get its self where we are now, long before Fairbrass came up with his scheme.

 

We are where we are because of what lots of people in angling wanted.

 

Fairbrass is getting this stick because he is a public figure, (within angling), and anyone in that position who publicly makes a controversial proposal, leaves himself open to critique. Just as Bob Nudd did with the 'remove all pike' suggestion. Come to think of it, a lot of people wanted that, would it have been ok for someone to go ahead with it?

My 'in tune with the natural flora and fauna', can mean many things. I have fished in places as diverse as clear mountain streams/tarns, and dirty industrialised canals. The flora and fauna at each, was 'natural' to the particular environment surrounding it. Over the years, the canal has cleaned up, it's environment has changed, and the flora and fauna have changed along with it. The species of fish also became more diverse, with a good mixture of sizes in all species. Then the mass stocking of carp happened in the 90s, many species have fallen back in numbers, some are very scarce, especially the fry. That was done 'for the good of angling' it was said. It was done for the good of catching more like, and with no regard for anything else.

 

John.

[Dales]

Take a look at this U turn then on none other than our own AN Face book page!-

 

https://www.facebook.com/AnglersNet/posts/10152929122441758?notif_t=notify_me

 

A rather large turn around, so what do AN members think of dedicated fisheries stocked with big coarse species?

[gozzer]

A rather large turn around, so what do AN members think of dedicated fisheries stocked with big coarse species?

maybe not Stephen.

[Dales]

Fairbrass is getting this stick because he is a public figure, (within angling), and anyone in that position who publicly makes a controversial proposal, leaves himself open to critique. Just as Bob Nudd did with the 'remove all pike' suggestion. Come to think of it, a lot of people wanted that, would it have been ok for someone to go ahead with it?

My 'in tune with the natural flora and fauna', can mean many things. I have fished in places as diverse as clear mountain streams/tarns, and dirty industrialised canals. The flora and fauna at each, was 'natural' to the particular environment surrounding it. Over the years, the canal has cleaned up, it's environment has changed, and the flora and fauna have changed along with it. The species of fish also became more diverse, with a good mixture of sizes in all species. Then the mass stocking of carp happened in the 90s, many species have fallen back in numbers, some are very scarce, especially the fry. That was done 'for the good of angling' it was said. It was done for the good of catching more like, and with no regard for anything else.

 

John.

 

As you pointed out in a post a few days back we do agree on a lot but where we dont agree is blaming the big carp guys for the sins of everyone else. For me its the mass stocking of small Carp, F1's, Goldfish, skimmers etc that is the thing that has ruined so many natural waters and is likely to ruin what is left of the mixed fisheries. I just like to point out that not all the damage to many fisheries is done by those who want to catch big Carp but by many others in angling.

[Steve Walker]

And I so want that to be true but many and I name and shame myself here would want to mold things to what is good for me. I would never want to do what Fairbrass is doing but I would and do want stuff that is good for me but not the environment.

 

Given the choice to bring back weed killer, I would want it back straight away. I would gladly use it, is that good for the environment? It's certainly good for fishing.

I wonder if we would have such weed problems if our farming practices weren't contaminating ground waters with nitrate?

 

Wingham is a highly managed fishery, true, but it is managed sympathetically and it sits in the middle of a nature reserve - much of the enjoyment of being there comes from that.

[Worms]

As you pointed out in a post a few days back we do agree on a lot but where we dont agree is blaming the big carp guys for the sins of everyone else. For me its the mass stocking of small Carp, F1's, Goldfish, skimmers etc that is the thing that has ruined so many natural waters and is likely to ruin what is left of the mixed fisheries. I just like to point out that not all the damage to many fisheries is done by those who want to catch big Carp but by many others in angling.

 

I think blaming the "big carp guys" is totally justifiable in this case....he wants to empty lakes of their native fish populations and stuff them with carp!

[Steve Walker]

A rather large turn around, so what do AN members think of dedicated fisheries stocked with big coarse species?

I think more of dedicated fisheries managed in such a way that big coarse fish grow in them!

[gozzer]

As you pointed out in a post a few days back we do agree on a lot but where we dont agree is blaming the big carp guys for the sins of everyone else. For me its the mass stocking of small Carp, F1's, Goldfish, skimmers etc that is the thing that has ruined so many natural waters and is likely to ruin what is left of the mixed fisheries. I just like to point out that not all the damage to many fisheries is done by those who want to catch big Carp but by many others in angling.

 

While I agree that the mass stocking of pasties is the greater evil, the overwhelming carp orientated media hype, that sweeps over angling like a mega tsunami, is almost as bad. What is wrong with decent mixed fisheries? It got me angry when carp suddenly became another, allegedly superior, category of fish, to me they are, and always will be, just another coarse fish.

As I've said many times, I would think the same about any special emphasis being placed on any indigenous species. They all have a place in a 'proper', well balanced fishery.

 

John.

[Steve Walker]

As you pointed out in a post a few days back we do agree on a lot but where we dont agree is blaming the big carp guys for the sins of everyone else. For me its the mass stocking of small Carp, F1's, Goldfish, skimmers etc that is the thing that has ruined so many natural waters and is likely to ruin what is left of the mixed fisheries. I just like to point out that not all the damage to many fisheries is done by those who want to catch big Carp but by many others in angling.

Totally agree, and in fact the waters my club has which I most like fishing are those they run primarily for the carp boys, not the semi-commercial set. But I think what Fairbrass is suggesting is applying the same logic that has given us commercials to specimen carp fishing.

[Dales]

I wonder if we would have such weed problems if our farming practices weren't contaminating ground waters with nitrate?

 

Wingham is a highly managed fishery, true, but it is managed sympathetically and it sits in the middle of a nature reserve - much of the enjoyment of being there comes from that.

 

Yes it's a good example of how to run a fishery sympathetically but its the exception rather then the rule. Oddly if all fisheries where run like Wingham there would be a lot of anglers with very few places to fish with the restricted numbers of members etc. It would be great for the environment, and I know another local syndicate to me that is run very much with the environment in mind but do we want all waters to be run as syndicates for the lucky few?

 

Land, lakes etc in general must pay for themselves and that will mean they must cater for what the majority want. They need to earn enough to justify not using the resource for something else. As anglers (users) we see it from our perspective but would it be different if we where the land owner or fishery manager? We often expect these people to act the way we want which will often not be good for them or their business. It's easy to get on our high horse about eco issues and doing the right thing when its not our business/project. For me free waters are a thing of the past, as I work as an accountant rather sadly I can see that fishing has to make economic sense. For those of you who are fortunate to have wild waters and even better free places to go, good for you. But bottom line, fishing is a business. I accept I have to pay for what I want and all the fond memories of how it used to be will not change that, if enough anglers wanted low stock mixed fisheries and where willing to pay for it we would have plenty of them.

 

I get that the tackle companies pump out endless media promoting Carp fishing but its what most anglers want, it sounds rather pessimistic but I think us lot on AN in our 40's, 50's, 60's and even 80's may be the last crop of real all rounders. How many new members do we get these days on here? Rather then blame the Carp companies for all the ills of the world, i wonder what has the rest of angling done to promote itself.

 

I can seperate my first 20 odd years of fishing from the last 20 years and for me it's to simple to blame Danny, Korda, Carp weekly or what ever for the loss of so much good mixed fishing. Carp are always seen as the killer of coarse fishing, I just don't except that if Carp fishing was not there we would have millions of coarse anglers in there place and that we would have loads of wonderful natural fisheries. The world has moved on, if pit X did not have 200 simmos in it then for me it does not follow that it would be a nice mixed fishery. It is just as likely to be a land fill site or a shopping centre.

 

Fishing is a business as much as us old tradionalists don't really like it. By all means rage against the machine and stick it to Danny but is he really the guy who ruined mixed fisheries?

Edited May 13, 2014 by Dales