Barbel introduced to Loch Lomond

[Peter Waller]

Graham X:

Pike fishermen with a bucket of barbel livebait?

Barbel? Naaa! Carp, maybe!!

[tommo666]

Sorry vagabond, no offence meant...

[Andy Macfarlane]

gazzamombazza:

There is no excuse for introducing alien species anywhere.

 

But I suspect the LLAIA "bailiffs" couldn't tell the difference between a young barbel and a gudgeon (which exist in large numbers & to a fairy impressive size on the Endrick).

I think you'll find they were Barbel alright. Who in their right mind moves Gudgeon?? I can fully understand folk wanting to move Barbel though.

The fishing media had made the Barbel the next biggest thing in fishing after Pike and Carp.

No one looks at a big Barbel and doesn't want a shot and Scottish anglers are no different.

Scottish anglers don't have loads of species in abundance and stocking was bound to happen sooner or later.

[StuMac]

Leon

 

The idea that Ruffe have not been introduced into Lomond is complete rubbish. Buy yourself a copy of the excellent 'British Freshwater fish: The species and their distibution' (just publihed and a superb book, every angler interested in fish biology should get one) and just look at the distribution of Ruffe. The Lomond population is very isolated.

 

The Loch has been studied extensively for years and people do know what fish species are there. I've even heard people say there aren't many ruffe - which is rubbish. They are at plague proportions in some areas. In parts of the loch a small net rowed out from the shore will haul in several bucket loads of them at a single sweep. These fish were not there before pike angling became popular. There are also established populations of Dace and Chub, which were not there 20 years ago.

 

I used to subscribe to 'non introduction' theories, but people who have worked at Rowedennan actually showed me some of the data and some photos of caught ruffe. The numbers are amazing.

 

I agree that it is very unlikely that pike anglers would use ruffe as a bait, but when I used to live bait (as a lad in Holland) every small fish I caught went into the bait bucket. Mainly small roach and perch, but if I had caught a ruffe that would have gone in too. It would also have been the last bait I used and so would, almost certainly, have been tipped back into the canal at the end of the day. There could well be other routes of colonisation, I always wonder about freshwater cruisers

 

However, they got there, there is something strange about the biology of ruffe that means that just a few individulas establish populations very quickly. I don't know what it is, but to suggest that there are natural populations of ruffe waiting to jump into L. Lomond is just plain wrong.

[Andy Macfarlane]

I don't think Leon was saying Ruffe don't exist in Lomond. I think he was establishing the fact there's no proof that Pikers are responsible for their appearance.

[gazzamombazza]

Andy, your missing my point mate. I regularly use gudgeon as lives for big Perch ( although the wee jacks tend to find them first) is it not the case that the "discovery" (if indeed this actually happen, lets face it the Association is hardly the most reliable source)was of a live bait bucket and not someone relocatting an alien species.

 

Or do you know something more about it thats not common knowledge????????

[corydoras]

Andy Macfarlane:

I don't think Leon was saying Ruffe don't exist in Lomond. I think he was establishing the fact there's no proof that Pikers are responsible for their appearance.

There may be no proof but they were not there 30 years ago when I started fishing on the Loch. This is my old stomping ground. Balloch born and bred me. There were also no dace, chubb or carp then either. The only coarse fish were roach, perch, pike and eels. Intoducing ANY species of fish fish into a body of water that it did not originally inhabit is downright irresponsible IMHO and yes that includes the bl##dy rainbow as well.

[Andy Macfarlane]

gazzamombazza:

 

Or do you know something more about it thats not common knowledge????????

Yea. I heard it was Perch anglers that introduced them..

 

PS: I didn't miss any point. I was merely pointing out what I think Leon meant.

[StuMac]

And my point is that it's not true - the Lomond Ruffe population is geographically very isolated and they are undoubtedly a species that has been introduced to the Loch within the past 30 years or so. I agree that it's very hard to see how they could have been introduced by pike anglers, but someone did it. This is not a natural event.

 

Ruffe spread very easily - they have even managed to get to the Great Lakes in USA / Canada (not indeginous to USA), where they are breeding like fury. Carried in ships ballast people think.

 

The introduced fish population that gets me are the bullheads in the small river that flows through Edinburgh (I can't remember its name). Thousands of the buggers have appeared over the last 30 years and they are no where else in Scotland. How did that happen. Pike anglers are not to blame there I'm sure.

 

The barbel story doesn't ring true either, although I don't dispute that they were caught red handed. Some garden cernters apparently sell small barbel as pond fish, so it could be that some ********s thought that this would be a good source of live bait for their next trip North. Did the guys have no pike fishing gear with them??

 

You just have to see the mess that some pike anglers leave on the banks to realise that they have no appreciation of nature.

[corydoras]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peter Waller:

[QB]Barbel? Naaa! Carp, maybe!!

---

Little Koi are reputedly deadly for pike, especially if used as a live bait

 

[ 13. December 2004, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: corydoras ]