Barbel introduced to Loch Lomond

[RJ]

This story really wound me up.....

 

Would barbel enthusiasts honestly stock Barbel into a still water?? There is an established population in the Clyde, having been stocked in 1967 (i believe originally from the Seven) but anyone worth there salt knows, Barbel would not do well in Lomond, and would probably die anyway. They most certainly would not be able to spawn unless they ran into the Endrick or something.

 

Would Pike anglers honestly go out and catch small Barbel (not the most prolific species) down south and then bring them up north as bait? Besides finding enough small barbel, the transportation of this high oxygen loving fish would not be the easiest thing in the world. Also, anyone who has Pike fished Lomond regularly with livebaits would know that silver sided fish such as Roach and Dace far outfishes dull coloured fish like Persh etc.

 

I am 100% sure that these "Barbel" were infact gudgeon. I have caught HUNDREDS of these in the Endrick over the years, upto very good sizes...and yes, I have used them for Perch and Pike on the main loch.

 

As for Ruffe, I used to use these regularly down in Englandshire when I lived there. They were killers for Pike...if not a little unusual. I lived in an area of high numbers of Pike anglers and Ruffe was an uncommon bait and therefore on its day, a killer.

 

As for Carp in Lomond, I believe they have been there for at least 50 years. Ther was infact a 20+ taken in 1959 by a chap fishing Balmaha for Perch using worm. This fish was killed and taken back down south. There was another carp of 20+ pounds taken in, I think, the late 70's on sweetcorn, again in Balmaha.

 

As for "introduced" fish, have a word with Pitlochry Research Station and ask them about Dubh Lochan on the East shores of Lomond!!!! See what was stocked in there around 30 years ago!!! This will give you some answers on Ruffe, and a few suprises. Funny how they forget what they were stocking when they come to there own research.

 

Rant over.

[Dick Dastardly]

Of course it is down to pike anglers transporting bait! All of the worlds evils are down to this! Anyway what would some one who actually fishes there and is well informed like yourself know about it anyway? Spotty faced student fresh water bioligists wouldnt mistake a gudgeon for a barbel or try and sensationalise their final paper for extra marks would they?

 

Great post.

 

Oh BTW ,student oceanographers out in South East Asia believe that the Tsunami was caused by Pike anglers transporting live bait...............

[Andrew Burgess]

BUDGIE:

 

Oh BTW ,student oceanographers out in South East Asia believe that the Tsunami was caused by Pike anglers transporting live bait...............  

[Leon Roskilly]

Go to anywhere in the world, at any point in the world's history, since fish first swam in freshwater and look for a pond.

 

(Remember that ponds are 'negative islands' geologically isolated islands are usually barren of animal life that cannot cross water, or have ancient, largely unchanged populations uniquely adapted to life on that particular island).

 

Particularly look for ponds that are not connected to any other watercourse by streams or flood plains etc.

 

And particularly ponds that dry out from time to time, every 50, 500, 5,000 years killing all life therein and with life starting again when the water returns.

 

Long before man inhabited the earth.

 

And in almost all of those 'negative islands' you will find a mix of fish, common to the region, but maybe the species and mix adjusted to the ponds current biological condition (acidity, light levels, nutrients etc - the fish population changes as the conditions change).

 

What would be extremely rare would be established ponds without fish populations that match the region and the conditions of the pond or lake.

 

Evolution has clearly devised ways of frequently getting species to isolated ponds without the need for the actions of man.

 

And recent research has shown that fish populations in many isolated waters show evidence of 'recent' gene swapping with other isolated populations where there is no apparent physical connection.

 

So it would seem that there are natural processes by which 'alien' species will constantly attempt to colonise isolated bodies of water.

 

What determines the mix of species present in any water at any time seems to be the conditions within the water.

 

When those conditions change, it will make colonisation by previously rebuffed species viable.

 

So putting sewage into a lake sees a roach population appear and/or explode, perhaps to the detriment of other species.

 

Or maybe rudd disappear.

 

Sewage, Nutrients from farm run off, polltion of the water table by leachate from dumps etc are all factors which are leading to a period of change to water quality and biological conditions within our waters.

 

Nature doesn't need man (or livebaiters to do the job). If the conditions are changing and are right for colonisation by a regional species, it will happen sooner or later, with or without man.

 

Although man may assist/accelerate the process, man is not needed by nature to establish a population suited to the water's current conditions.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[corydoras]

RJ:

I am 100% sure that these "Barbel" were infact gudgeon. I have caught HUNDREDS of these in the Endrick over the years, upto very good sizes...and yes, I have used them for Perch and Pike on the main loch

No time for a rant at the moment, 'cause I am at work, but for what it is worth IMHO your 'gudgeon' were in fact stone loaches. Gudegeon are another fish that although native to England are not native to Scotland. The stone loach is however fairly common all over Scotland and is found in the Endrick and when I was a lad in quite a few wee burns that ran into the River Leven near Balloch.

 

You can check out Fishbase if my word is not good enough. Click here for Gudgeon, and here for info on the stone loach.

 

[ 13. January 2005, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: corydoras ]

[Rugs]

Peter Waller:

I'm surprised that anyone uses ruffe as a pike bait! To be a usable size makes it practically record size!

 

Such behaviour does nothing for anglers.

Liphooked Double Ruffe as a live bait worked 25 years ago on the Norfolk Broads

[Dick Dastardly]

Out of desperation most species/size of fish will be used as a livebait.BUT my whole argument here has always been that if some one is prepared to go out and catch fish then transport them all the way to Scotland for live bait on a pike trip then they will catch and takew the best choice of size/species.And despite some peoples comments can we really see Ruffe fitting that bill?

[jim doyle]

re the fish population in loch lomond, get hold of the book by harry lamond?(I think thats the name) he mentions all the fish known to be in the loch since the1900s. They include ruffe ,tench roach etc, the tench were supposed to have come from a pond on what is now Mcfarlands boatyard at balmaha! As for barbel in the edrick,well nothing surprises me up here. By the way budge I am the same scotsman who introduced Izarra to yourself and mr moffatt on the soane! As you will remember I was one of the fouder members of the pac in scotland, I used to have most of the literature written about the place.

[Dick Dastardly]

Hi Jim,good to hear from you and welcome to AN! The Saone is prety knackered these days good job you got some in before the gill netting!Hope the family are well.

[jim doyle]

sad to hear about the Saone, its a graet place. why are they netting it the cats have no food value, maybe their going to stock the big L with them