Barbel introduced to Loch Lomond

[peter mccue]

No time for a rant at the moment, 'cause I am at work, but for what it is worth IMHO your 'gudgeon' were in fact stone loaches. Gudegeon are another fish that although native to England are not native to Scotland. The stone loach is however fairly common all over Scotland and is found in the Endrick and when I was a lad in quite a few wee burns that ran into the River Leven near Balloch.

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A quick search on the web reveals quite a few sites stating Gudgeon are now resident on the river Endrick.

[fenboy]

I wasn't going to get controversial, but:

 

Ruffe livebaits have worked for me. I used one as a last resort about 1979 and immediately had a double-figure pike.

 

Of course pike anglers introduced ruffe to Lomond. In the 1970s and early 80s when a blind eye was turned to fish introductions, all sorts of stuff went in there. I personally used crucian carp and tench livebaits there in 1983... and I've seen chub and small common carp used, too.

 

It was pike anglers that (accidentally) introduced roach to Ireland, much earlier than that.

 

But barbel? I just can't see it. Too difficult to transport as bait. ANd rather difficult to catch them small enough.

 

By the way, and changing the subject slightly, haven't ruffe become a bit of a problem in the US Great Lakes after being inadvertently shipped over in the bilges of cargo ships? Perhaps Newt can fill us in on that?

[Dick Dastardly]

They have never liked the cats Jim and have always killed them.The commercial bleak fishermen feel they affect their livvleyhood! With the issuing of so many more commercial licences the standard of catting was hit that hard it stopped our buisness being viable.Luke has stayed on at the lake at Brognon I am some what at a lose end back here in the UK.

 

The netting and subsequent removal of so many predators has had a marked affect on the river in general.I was over there for a bit of general fishing/socialising last September.Every where I fished from Tournous to Macon on the main river and on the small river that used to run behind my van all you could catch on feeder gear was small plate sized carp.Due to this most French anglers are more than happy! A great shame.Luke always said the French would mess it up.Sadly he was right.

[Newt]

fenboy:

By the way, and changing the subject slightly, haven't ruffe become a bit of a problem in the US Great Lakes after being inadvertently shipped over in the bilges of cargo ships? Perhaps Newt can fill us in on that?

So far they are pretty well localized to one of the Great Lakes and feeder rivers.

 

However, there is the usual panic and it seems the local preds (based on stomach content sampling) don't like them much. The ruffe like the conditions, breed fast, and will be taking over the area completely within a short period of time, completely destroying all other aquatic life in the lake. Oh woe, oh woe. Etc.

 

Bear in mind that Lake Superior (where they seem to be at this point) at it closest point is around 1300 miles from me so I'm not really up on local conditions there.

[Jim Gibbinson]

Non-indigenous species...?

 

Well, we should get rid of carp for a start, which were almost certainly absent from Britain prior to the fifteenth century. We'd have to eradicate wels, too. Rainbow trout, blue trout etc, obviously. And grass-carp. Also zander.

 

And why not go the whole hog and restrict fish to the actual watercourses to which they are indigenous? That would mean removing barbel from the Hampshire Avon, Dorset Stour, Wye, Severn, Bristol Avon, Teme etc. etc.

 

Maybe we should be careful what we wish for!

[corydoras]

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Originally posted by peter mccue:

[QBA quick search on the web reveals quite a few sites stating Gudgeon are now resident on the river Endrick.

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This is one of the problems with this site. A quick search on Google and we are all experts in any field and we are all world leaders in the field of ichthyology because we go out and drown worms at the weekend. An hour or so of comprehensive research will find that they have only been there since the late 1970s. Gudgeon have no place in the River Endrick and IMHO any angler catching one whilst fishing there should not return them.

[Dick Dastardly]

Well said Jim.Although Im not in agreeance with indescriminate stocking or man interfering in general people often forget the points you make.

[jim doyle]

re ruffe in loch lomond they were there long before 1970 the first mention was ,I believe in about 1920 ish , as I said try harry Lamonds book Loch lomond he quotes several surveys of the loch and mentions about 16 to20 different species in the loch. Ive caught or seen most of the bait fish in the loch and used most as bait. More worrying on the loch is the grneral disreguard for the place. I moved off the loch several years ago as it was becoming a bivvy park, I had to apologise to many of the locals for damage to their property. It was fine in the winter ther were about 3or 4 anglers who fished on and managed a few fish.

[Dick Dastardly]

Good point Corydoras.Even more of a problem is how much these supposed sites vary in their information.Just try running a search on half dozen of them for one fact,try the worlds biggest freshwater fish for example,you will get some right conflicting information!

 

Trouble is of course that any one can set up a web site claiming to be a leading authority on anything they please! Most dissapointing and why I tend to stick to facts I have learned myself or gleaned from truley authorative sources such as Natural History Museum etc etc.

[peter mccue]

An hour or so of comprehensive research will find that they have only been there since the late 1970s. Gudgeon have no place in the River Endrick and IMHO any angler catching one whilst fishing there should not return them.

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So your research showed they were there as well did it.

 

I'm certainly no expert Cory, just done a quick search that seems to agree with your comprehensive one!