Pike Fish For Britain

[Dick Dastardly]

No moral high ground claimed at all Chris.I admit that just by piking Im risking their welfare and despite any care I show some must die.I have come to terms with this. I would put it to you that the real "holier than though" pikers are the ones that "believe" they never cause any harm and all their captures "live to fight another day".

 

Whats disgusting is that you feel you can berate my veiws when you dont know what Ive experienced to reach these veiws so I feel it is you who are being unfair.I dont believe for one minute if you had seen the same as me that your attitude would be any different to mine.

 

I dont know Chris maybe you are an organiser/competitor in responsible pike "matchs".I know I used to be both.Such a thing can exist.The trouble is that most are not ran responsibly.I stopped having anything to do with any kind of pike match as I felt it wouldnt be right for me to decry the bad ones but promote mine and take part in others which I thought were ok.That would have indeed made me guilty of the attitude you acuse me of.

 

The fact that the British Pike squad was linked with this thread also made me see red.Youve got to remember that the Pevensey levels and Wallers Haven are close to me and Ive seen what has happened there.

 

In fact your whole point about my "double standards" is echoed by your own remarks on moral culpability. The guy who doesnt know has an excuse the one who does hasnt.

 

My whole point is that all the time there are people entering matchs who are of a poor standard (be it skill or morals) then "good" anglers attending/supporting matchs just allow these others the chance.Same goes for organisers to,all the time there is a requirment for these matchs cowboys will be able to run them.

 

As for the PAC,well I have never ever known a body as guilty of the things you acuse ME of! Im not a member either any more and thats because of just one reason only as well.Fair play to Peter for sticking to his guns.

 

Im disapointed Chris,by all means disagree with my opinion, certainly question it,Im always interested in reading your alternative but to just dismiss it because it doesnt echo your experiences is unfair.

 

I thought my track record in trying to help ALL pikers and try to put something back in to piking was good enough to avoid this sort of personal attack.I may get called the Pike Police as I always reccomend people to get help learning how to pike fish and try to make people aware of the need to learn BUT at least I will actively get out there and give the help I reccomend. No my concience is clear,no double standards here.

[Guest Josh Iddon]

Sorry to but in but, i dont know much about pike, are the pike kept in keepnets in these matchs? Josh

[Peter Waller]

I have seen it happen, the fish being vertical in captivity.

 

There was also a photograph in AP a few years ago of an ACA Pike Championship winner, with the keepnet behind him, impressive.

[slodger]

I apologise if my post seemed like a personal attack Budgie, it wasn't intended at you 'personally' but rather at all of the pious contributors to this thread.

 

 

As for not knowing what you've experienced to arrive at those views, well I can make an educated guess, and i've probably witnessed similar. However if you think that the small element of questionable pikers, that show less than total concern for their quarry when fishing in a pike match, will behave any differently when they're out on the bank as 'normal' pikers, then you're being naieve in the extreme. At least under the banner of a well organised pike match there is a slight chance of re-educating them. Equally, if you think there are more irresponsible pikers found in the pike match circuit, than are roaming the banks on any given weekend of the year, that IMO is equally naieve. Are we then to call into question the everyday practise of pike angling? Of course not, we have to accept that not all anglers will behave in what we percieve as a generally accepted responsible way. Why focus on pike match competitors?

 

No I neither organise, nor fish in pike matches nowadays, though I've fished several in the past. My only 'pike-crime' in recent years has been to marshal on behalf of PAC at the Marie Curie Cancer charity match. A chance to practise what I preach you see. And a pike match that does a huge amount of good for a very worthwhile charity. One that has particular relevance to me. So I won't be apologising! I couldn't give a flying fig if one or two competitors don't have designer tackle, or are a little inexperienced in the handling of pike. It's worth remembering that we all started out that way.

 

 

As for the PAC, and your not being a member, obviously that's your choice but I happen to think that's a sad reflection on somebody who has your experience and level of involvement in the sport. It's also disappointing to hear that it hangs on one issue. I can't see how any club can be expected to be tailored to suit each individual member, especially when they number nearly 2,000. It seems a rather maverick attitude to me.

 

Once again, if my post seemed unfairly aggresive toward you, then I'm genuinely sorry, I have nothing but the highest regard for you. I perhaps tend to get too intense when arguing in favour of my beliefs, but it's never meant to come across as insulting. I'm sure you'll have gathered by now though, that it's an issue that sees me equally as passionate as yourself.

Edited March 10, 2006 by slodger

[slodger]

"There was more than one issue involved Chris"

 

What, like them taking a stand against the barbaric practise of using pike gags Peter?

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks for your reply Chris.You are of course quite right it is a very difficult subject with no easy answers.

 

I agree that many of the people who fish "irrisponsibley" in matches would no doubt do the same regardless.

 

I also agree that there are far to many who "wouldnt be seen dead" fishing a pike match whose own attitudes to handling/welfare are very poor.

 

Yes it is a great shame I cant find it in my heart to come back in to the PAC "fold" I would love to in a way.But conversely isnt it a sad reflection on the club that so many "experienced" pikers are no longer members?I still have lots of dealings with them and most of the slide shows/talks I do are for l PAC Regional branchs (I used to be an RO) As well as my "alienation" by one comitee and several other members who are still some what influential in the club I suppose a lot of my problem(possibley unfair)to the club as a whole is with similar types to what you describe ie the "do as I say not what I do" sadly many of which are just PAC "badge wearers" Then again surely the club itself should step on these to protect its own image.Ah well that an entirely different topic.

 

I do honestly believe,well Ive seen it so there is no doubt in my mind,that there is a large element of pike match anglers that only pike fish in these matchs.This is indeed probably the whole crux of the problem.

 

The one thing that I do take solice in in these debates is the fact that as you say no matter which way we look at it we are all so passionate about it.

[Peter Waller]

"There was more than one issue involved Chris"

 

What, like them taking a stand against the barbaric practise of using pike gags Peter?

 

The secretary of the PAC has my letter explaining my decision, Chris, it is between me and the PAC. No harm in saying that the guist of my decision is based on the excessive attention now being bestowed upon the pike.

 

The PAC has done a mountain of good. Pike fishing would be a very different beast had the PAC not come into existance.

 

I note your comments to Budgie. Pike fishing is a very wide church, and no, the PAC can not be tailored to suit every member. But so long as it can be tailored to suit the pike, that is all that matters.

 

Chris, re the 50 pound pike, I also noted your comments to Nev Fickling.

Edited March 11, 2006 by Peter Waller

[slodger]

Fair play Budgie. I guess there's two sides to the argument and I can at least understand your concerns.

 

I think it's a crying shame that you can't bring yourself to re-engage with the PAC though. Would I be right in thinking that your disenchantment arises from a particularly bitter episode in the club's past, that was triggered by the policies of a certain Tout-water?

 

I have a vested interest, as it looks as though I will be serving on the next commitee. One of my personal goals is going to be to make an effort to recover the allegiance of some of our lost members, so I may well be hassling you and Peter in the near future.

[slodger]

"Chris, re the 50 pound pike, I also noted your comments to Nev Fickling."

 

..... and?

[Tim Kelly]

Chris has got PMT at the moment. Ignore him and he'll be back to his usual cheerful self in a week or so.