Disgusted!

[sam-cox]

The bass restoration plan here in the UK has been, and still is hard work for all those involved, Im nothing to do with it but my farther is.

Most days I cant get through to him on the phone for hours as the bmp takes up about 10 hours of phone calls a day.

 

Something should be done to help protect the breeding bass of Gurnsey of that I have no dout.

Whoever starts the ball rolling will need to gather troops, you will of course need a Leon Roskilly character for all the fact collating.

Good luck its going to be a dirty job but someone really does need to do it.

[wurzel]

Hello Steve

 

Quote

 

Going back to the subject of a close season. When bass shoal up throughout the rest of the year, they do it to feed. The period when they are easy prey can be as little as 30 minutes and never usually more than 2 hours at a time.

 

This is because nine times out of ten you scare the s(*** out of them, I did try to show you how to do it with out scaring them so much.

 

When they shoal up to spawn, they must be easy pickings for most of the time. It must be like shooting rats in a barrel, and not very sporting at all. From what I've learned from this thread, what goes on out there at spawning time is wholly commercial exploitation. I can't under stand how it has not been discovered years ago, either Guernsey fishermen are a bit slow or these bass have recently moved up from the Bay of Biscay or some where.

 

I've experienced bass shoals just like this one, after they have spawned , and they fed for 6 hours at a time, and the same thing with deciding which one to net happened often, perhaps once they have spawned they move to another area, I doubt they split up, that shoal has probably been together since the biggest ones were tids.

 

Quote

I was also planning to contact the Tourist board and see what they think about lost business in the island as a direct and even indirect impact of this situation

 

Why should you lose business? Or do you have proof that this shoal is the entire Guernsey bass stock?

 

Quote

The Guernsey Sea Fisheries merely calculated that the amount of bass caught from the mark worked out at 0.2% of the spawning stock of the English Channel.

 

They are probably right.

 

It's compromise time.

 

I can understand your fears, and from experience they are not entirely unfounded, although hopefully the loss of that shoal will not effect the over all Guernsey bass stock.

Once the shoals we found were finally caught up it did not seem to effect the catches in the surrounding areas , with the huge amount of small bass about this area, it did not have any effect on the basses ability to reproduce to the maximum, as I don't think there is room for any more in the nursery areas.

 

The Guernsey fishery seems to be holding up fairly well, but like you say I doubt it will for ever.

If I was involved, and knowing what I learned from past experience. I don't like total bans, you could go around the country and every time a commercial fisherman happens on a bonanza, you lobby to ban him.

I would suggest a catch limit per man with a limit on men per boat to stop boats going out with 10 bodies onboard, when they normally have 4.

 

This limit has to be reasonable, say a large box or the equivalent to £250 a man per day, not forgetting the boat normally takes 50% so that leaves 1/2 box for wages.

 

I have always worked on the basis that fish attract fish; this is easy to work to if you are on your own but as soon as other boats start working the same spots it just breaks down to a free for all, same thing happens with anglers as well.

 

If properly managed it could settle down to a good regular fishery for years with the way bass stocks are increasing. The way it's going I’d give it another two or three years, but then again I said the same thing to a Belgium friend, but their bass fishery is going from strength to strength, so who really knows what’s going on concerning bass these days.

[Steve Coppolo]

Hello Steve

 

I did try to show you how to do it with out scaring them so much.

 

Yes, and I'm very grateful. I'll be using your tactics this year to see what sort of difference it makes. I think that was my last bass trip of the year, and it wasn't the best of days was it?

 

 

It's compromise time.

 

I can understand your fears, and from experience they are not entirely unfounded, although hopefully the loss of that shoal will not effect the over all Guernsey bass stock.

Once the shoals we found were finally caught up it did not seem to effect the catches in the surrounding areas , with the huge amount of small bass about this area, it did not have any effect on the basses ability to reproduce to the maximum, as I don't think there is room for any more in the nursery areas.

 

The Guernsey fishery seems to be holding up fairly well, but like you say I doubt it will for ever.

If I was involved, and knowing what I learned from past experience. I don't like total bans, you could go around the country and every time a commercial fisherman happens on a bonanza, you lobby to ban him.

I would suggest a catch limit per man with a limit on men per boat to stop boats going out with 10 bodies onboard, when they normally have 4.

 

This limit has to be reasonable, say a large box or the equivalent to £250 a man per day, not forgetting the boat normally takes 50% so that leaves 1/2 box for wages.

 

I have always worked on the basis that fish attract fish; this is easy to work to if you are on your own but as soon as other boats start working the same spots it just breaks down to a free for all, same thing happens with anglers as well.

 

If properly managed it could settle down to a good regular fishery for years with the way bass stocks are increasing. The way it's going I’d give it another two or three years, but then again I said the same thing to a Belgium friend, but their bass fishery is going from strength to strength, so who really knows what’s going on concerning bass these days.

 

I totally agree with your last paragraph, well, all of them actually. Personally, I'd rather see sensible management measures put in place than out and out bans. What do you think the chances are of it happening though? I can see them being wiped out before anything is done to look after them, which would be a shame.

[guernseybass]

When they shoal up to spawn, they must be easy pickings for most of the time. It must be like shooting rats in a barrel, and not very sporting at all. From what I've learned from this thread, what goes on out there at spawning time is wholly commercial exploitation. I can't under stand how it has not been discovered years ago, either Guernsey fishermen are a bit slow or these bass have recently moved up from the Bay of Biscay or some where.

 

 

wurzel - the mark was discovered 3 years ago by accident by a potter. the local commercial fisherman said last year that they felt the fish would have shoaled up in previous years elsewhere - one previous example given was the schole bank in the 90's i think. it was also felt that eventually they would move on ( maybe due to the continued harrisment they get ). this is the third winter on the mark though.

 

despite the vast numbers landed, apparently most fish are sitting on the bottom not feeding. a local skipper i spoke to felt that they are not spawning but waiting to move to deeper water to spawn.

 

hopefully the tagging will show if it affecting the breeding stock biomass which is my main worry. the problem we RSA guys have here is that the fleet has no other winter catch to target and ICES say there is not a problem with overall stocks (based on landings not actual sampling) so the Government are not interested in a closed season.

 

if people are concerned they should write to the Guernsey Press newspaper - only strong pressure from both the local and visiting public will change anything here, but as the UK controls the 3-12 mile limit not Guernsey you need to write to DEFRA too.

 

what may happen in Guernsey ( what we campaigned for also ) is a RSA bag limit of 2 fish in 24 hours and a new offence of buying unlicensed fish. our main argument against this exploitation of the shoal continues to be that although it may be only 0.5% of the total biomass, if there is one breeding fish to 10 schoolies, you may be taking 10% per annum of the entire breeding stock, but the lads in Sea Angler are not listening.

 

on ething i would ask you wurzel, is what % of your bass catch is typically schoolies and what % would be breeders of 5lB plus ?

 

Mark

Edited March 18, 2006 by guernseybass

[Steve Coppolo]

, but the lads in Sea Angler are not listening.

 

Has anyone actually written to Sea angler to tell them that the big bass in those photos are commercially caught and then sold? I might phone them next week.

[FishingGuernsey]

Quote

I was also planning to contact the Tourist board and see what they think about lost business in the island as a direct and even indirect impact of this situation

 

Why should you lose business? Or do you have proof that this shoal is the entire Guernsey bass stock?

 

Why Wurzel should I am several other industries lose out on potential earnings where at present only a handful of individuals benefit? Most of the catch is not landed locally but taken to France and S UK, so there is little benefit on local economy which really needs all the help it can get in the coming years. I am trying to be longsighted for Guernsey.

 

There is no proof that this shoal is the entire Guernsey stock, it is more likely to come from the surrounding channel area and south as well. I am intending to try and find out from local Bass clubs if there has been any effect on the members catches since the mark was discovered, though this obviously doesn't prive anything, IMO it might give some sort of indicator (possibly) if the local stock is being effected.

 

 

 

It's compromise time.

 

I can understand your fears, and from experience they are not entirely unfounded, although hopefully the loss of that shoal will not effect the over all Guernsey bass stock.

Once the shoals we found were finally caught up it did not seem to effect the catches in the surrounding areas , with the huge amount of small bass about this area, it did not have any effect on the basses ability to reproduce to the maximum, as I don't think there is room for any more in the nursery areas.

 

The Guernsey fishery seems to be holding up fairly well, but like you say I doubt it will for ever.

If I was involved, and knowing what I learned from past experience. I don't like total bans, you could go around the country and every time a commercial fisherman happens on a bonanza, you lobby to ban him.

I would suggest a catch limit per man with a limit on men per boat to stop boats going out with 10 bodies onboard, when they normally have 4.

 

This limit has to be reasonable, say a large box or the equivalent to £250 a man per day, not forgetting the boat normally takes 50% so that leaves 1/2 box for wages.

 

I have always worked on the basis that fish attract fish; this is easy to work to if you are on your own but as soon as other boats start working the same spots it just breaks down to a free for all, same thing happens with anglers as well.

 

If properly managed it could settle down to a good regular fishery for years with the way bass stocks are increasing. The way it's going I'd give it another two or three years, but then again I said the same thing to a Belgium friend, but their bass fishery is going from strength to strength, so who really knows what's going on concerning bass these days.

 

I am not 100% for a total ban but I want to see some decent measures which will see an improvement on the current situation and improve public perception for reasons I have already highlighted.

 

The idea of a limit is fine as log as it is sensible as well as reasonable.

 

The fishery is holding up well at the moment but reports this year are seeing a decrease in the reported catches. We will have to wait for the figures to come through for some comparative data.

 

I want to see proper management but if that isn't possible then I will support a ban until something is agreed upon.

 

What do people consider to be a sensible approach to fisheries management, we all have families to feed and we will still have families to feed in years to come, I want to know and do my bit to support these fisheries in the best possible way for all to enjoy without damaging the fish stocks.

[Steve Coppolo]

What do people consider to be a sensible approach to fisheries management, we all have families to feed and we will still have families to feed in years to come, I want to know and do my bit to support these fisheries in the best possible way for all to enjoy without damaging the fish stocks.

 

Personally, I think a close season is necessary during the time when these fish are shoaling up like that. There is nothing to stop the rod and line commercial fishermen from catching bass for the rest of the year. A steady income throughout the year would be better for the legitimate commercial fishermen, and they wouldn't have to contend with all the other boats cashing in on "their" fishery while the fishing is easy.

 

A limited number of licences available to local rod and line commercials could work. They could be given a set amount of days to target the fish to make sure they didn't tear the arse out of it. That way, the bass would get less attention and any benefits would go to local fishermen and not be the free for all that it is now.

 

Wurzel says a limit per boat might be an idea, but this could cause problems. Just imagine if the limit was set at the £250 per man and 4 men to a boat mentioned by Wurzel. If the "charter" boats are using "anglers" to catch the fish they don't have to pay any wages, so that skipper is taking £1000 per day while a legitimate rod and line commercial would have to pay his crew and therefore would be taking less money.

 

 

So in my book in first choice would be a total close season, second would be local licences.

[Pugs]

Then stop talking about it and make it happen, as BASS did for bass, the National Mullet Club are in the process of doing for mullet and SOS are doing for tope and smoothounds etc. and flounder enthusiasts are doing for flounder.

 

 

Bass are only getting the attention that they are because some bass anglers are working their socks off to put in place measures for that species, not simply posting 'something should be done' (by someone else!)

 

 

It's also because they are ahead of the game, and there is so much noise being generated as their plans come to fruition.

 

I expect there will still be those moaning when flounder are being dealt with by those who favour wrasse, 'what about my wrasse, why isn't someone doing something about that'.

 

It's because you are that someone, and you are not doing anything but moaning about it!

 

Well said that man

[Pugs]

100 tons of cod are landed somewhere, do you jump up and down and make a fuss, no you don't give a stuff,

 

Stop being so blinkered and look at the whole picture !

 

Knight

 

Well do something about it Mr Ni. Start a campaign, jump up and down but don't have a go at people who ARE at least trying to do something

[wurzel]

Hello Steve

Quote

If the "charter" boats are using "anglers" to catch the fish they don't have to pay any wages, so that skipper is taking £1000 per day while a legitimate rod and line commercial would have to pay his crew and therefore would be taking less money.

 

I doubt this would happen for long, you need a regular crew and even for anglers hauling in 10 lb bass all day in all weathers becomes work and you want paying.

 

Quote

So in my book in first choice would be a total close season

 

A ban would stop them earning, when they need it most, during the winter, they are only small inshore boats this fishery is giving them a welcome boost, it's the sort of bonas that pays for a new engine, or even towards a new boat as it did in my case,at least a revamp and a new radar and plotter, it stops the wife telling you to get a proper job for a while, you must understand why they are not willing to give it up.

 

Hello Fishingguernsey

 

Quote

The fishery is holding up well at the moment but reports this year are seeing a decrease in the reported catches.

 

Then perhaps the fishermen might be willing to talk about a management plan. I susspect all they have heard is " greedy ba**** close the fishery ban it , bass anglers are worth more than you lot". they probably feel threatened, and right to.

 

Quote

Why Wurzel should I am several other industries lose out on potential earnings where at present only a handful of individuals benefit?

 

A healthy fishing fleet supports several other industreis.