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Eating Perch...or any other prized species.


Andy Macfarlane

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Well Ive got to be honest I stoped reading replies after page 12.Started getting a bit repetitive so its my turn now to add my thoughts.

 

Freshwater fish have been and still are eaten regularly in Europe.It is as normal for them to eat carp,tench,bream etc as it is for us to eat cod,haddock or place etc.The main reason that it has become the norm in England is that due to us being an island very few places have been to far from the coast to be able to get reasonably fresh sea fish.Contrast this to Europe where in the olden days it would have been impossible to get fresh sea fish due to the distance from the coast.

 

Comment has been made about the situation in Germany.The Green Party's veiw is that it is unaceptable to fish just for sport (ie catch and release) therefore all fish are to be caught for the pot ie killed.Unlike what Bob says it has not affected match fishing in Germany at all.The only match fishing it has affected has been for the British forces stationed there.German nationals have had killing there catch as part of their angling tradition/custom for a long time.Whether I/we like it or not it doesnt seem to have affected the quality of their fishing that much.But we must remember these are generally much bigger waters than we have.The compulsory killing of fish was in place in many areas of Germany long before the Greens came to power any way.

 

Also on the subject of europian countries policies,France.Got to disagree with Gerry a bit on this one.Yes the French do have a lot of restrictions re closed seasons,hook sizes,baits,methods in place to protect predatory fish whilst spawning.Sadly they have to have these in place to try and redress the fact that so many (in fact nearly all) pike,perch and zander are killed for the table when caught.There are very few predators left in most systems.Once again due to the long standing national tradition of eating these species.

 

So if we allowed people to kill what they caught everyone would rush out and start raping fisheries then? Well news for some here it is and has been for ever legal to do so on some waters and very few take advantage of this so why should things change?It is simply not our custom.

 

Our tradition of sporting code and preference for eating sea fish stops this "rape" of our waters anyway.

 

There will always be the idiot who kills a specimen fish be intentionally or not,for eating or not.Sad though it is this will always happen.But equaly no matter how sad it is it hasnt and wont ever destroy our fisheries.

 

I should imagine that anyone who regularly takes fish for the table would have learned by experience that its not the bigger fish that make the best eating anyway.

 

Same with taking fish for use as bait.People who do so regularly know that 1lb roach and 4lb chub arnt needed for baits.

 

My point with the above two comments are that there are plenty of fish available in these "takeable" sizes so will not be missed.

 

Got to question Bob on his denial of fish dying as a result of matchs.Bob Ive match fished/used a keepnet as much as anyone and have the guts to admit that I have often had one or two dead fish.This is not an anti matchman or keepnet thing just a fact.Just the same as Ive had pike die or any other fish for that matter.I feel my fish handling skills and regard for fish "welfare" are as high as others.

 

Same as the killing to eat/use as bait issue I feel that the very small percentage of fish killed by match fishing/keepnets is inconsequential in the overall scale of things.

 

No matter how much we care for our catch we must be realistic enough to acept that fishing for them in general isnt in their best interests!

 

All anglers whether intentionaly or not kill some fish,like it or not.Those who cant see this are choosing not to see it to apease their own consience.

 

Similar vein is the live baiter who will only use a lip hooked bait of a certain spoecies,cast it out "gentley" and honestly give a dam whether it lives or not if released.Come on grow up if we choose to livebait then we are effectively (eventually) killing that fish.It doesnt matter as it wont affect the whole eco system.Just be straight and stop trying to kid people otherwise (or is it trying to kid them selves? consience thing again).

 

The modern (incidently a lot of it has come from the carp/pike world er I say this not to knock but more to put my own hands up) "I love my chosen species more than you/anyone else" attitude is poor and not only causes resentment amongst anglers but also makes us seem hypocritical to non anglers/antis.

 

A lot of it goes back to the age old "is it or isnt it cruel" debate.And therefore do we have to justify what we do to others who dont.

 

I liked the "interferring with fish" quote.Im sure it is how many non/anti anglers would see it.

 

Well to sum up I feel that we should always retain the "right" to kill a fish.We should obviously educate people against killing in a wastefull way.Be this the size of fish they take to eat or use as bait and especially killing just for a trophy.I honestly dont think we will ever see (in normal circumstances) so many fish being killed that it will affect proper balanced fisheries. But above all lets wake up and start seeing things for what they are and then admitting it.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Also on the subject of europian countries policies,France.Got to disagree with Gerry a bit on this one.Yes the French do have a lot of restrictions re closed seasons,hook sizes,baits,methods in place to protect predatory fish whilst spawning.Sadly they have to have these in place to try and redress the fact that so many (in fact nearly all) pike,perch and zander are killed for the table when caught.There are very few predators left in most systems.Once again due to the long standing national tradition of eating these species.

 

To a point budgie and I know how fishing in general has suffered in the top half of the country, but there are still major river systems and big stillwaters (mostly south of your old stomping grounds on the Loire/Saone) where predator stocks are very high. I put it down to two main reasons. The wild trout and the tame carp 'rules', south of the Loire valley and so general coarse fishing is not subject to the high tech, boilie and four rods technology that you find in the UK. Neither is boat fishing for preds as wide spread or as intensive as the UK and US, which effectively puts the best of the fishing out of reach of the rusty spinner brigade. Bearing in mind that the french have an unbelievably large network of rivers and lakes from the Loire to the Dordogne alone, most of which is still in pristine untouched condition. There are a few UK anglers living out there now and doing well on preds and the rest, but they play eveything close to their chests. Can't say I blame them.

 

3400 kilometres of trout rivers and streams

125 acres of trout ponds

6000 acres of municipal and private ponds (1600 known ponds)

1000 kilometers of coarse rivers

15 hydroelectric dams covering over 3000 acres

 

Thats just in the creuse valley and surrounding areas. I had a little nose around and found vast stretches of water virtually unfished except for a few intense trouties, UK carpers and some local old boys out for a picnic. If you ever wondered what happened to all of those old solid glass rods...well I found them.

 

I know what you're thinking mate...I'm working on it :)

Edited by argyll

'I've got a mind like a steel wassitsname'

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Budgie wrote;

"Got to question Bob on his denial of fish dying as a result of matchs.Bob Ive match fished/used a keepnet as much as anyone and have the guts to admit that I have often had one or two dead fish.This is not an anti matchman or keepnet thing just a fact"

 

Actually Budgie, I was questioning fish dying as a result of keepnets in matches, certainly fish mortality's are part of match fishing on some venues ,with some species, but I do not believe ,and there is no evidence to suggest that keepnets are responsible,( bad angling practice and deep hooking yes, but not keepnets), and certainly Carp mortality's in matches I fish at my local commercial are very ,very rare indeed ,this may have something to do with the carp being super fit and healthy PLUS good fish handling skills and practice that are policed diligently by the owners.

 

As for my comments regarding German match fishing being badly effected by catch and kill, I am correct! the Germans used to have a very good team in the 80s with Wolfgang Kremkus (World Champion) and co, but since catch and release has been banned match fishing has lost it's appeal to many Germans and their National side are no longer a threat in International events.

I am a match angler .....not an anti-Christ!!!]

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As for my comments regarding German match fishing being badly effected by catch and kill, I am correct! the Germans used to have a very good team in the 80s with Wolfgang Kremkus (World Champion) and co, but since catch and release has been banned match fishing has lost it's appeal to many Germans and their National side are no longer a threat in International events.

 

I think everybody else is wondering about the state of German fish stocks, rather than the morale of German anglers. I think ;)

Bleeding heart liberal pinko, with bacon on top.

 

 

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Fair enough about the keepnet maybe not being the prime cause of the deaths but deaths non the the less Bob.

 

Comercial carp waters? Well I can only speak about the ones local to me such as MidKents match lake and the Snake Lake at Wylands.Common to see dead carp at these after matchs.Once Again please note Im prepared to acept this but admit it does happen.

 

Bob I lived in Germany during part of the 80's,late 82 till late 87 to be precise.During this time I was very involved in both the British Army match scene and the local German one to.During the time I was there some of the younger German anglers had started to copy the tactics,methods and catch and release of us visiting anglers.However I asure you the vast majority of local anglers killed their catch.In several areas (Neinburg being just one that I can remember) the killing of fish was compulsory to all.On our Army matchs and the International matchs we run in these arteas we had to supply vehicles and containers to collect the dead fish in.Most of us Brits would have "accidents" with our catchs after the weigh in that enabled our catch to escape.German anglers would not break the law.Bob Ive never been pegged next to a German angler in any German run match that didnt kill all of his catch or at best return them half dead through being kept in an overly small wire basket.

 

So I fail to see why the modern laws would affect the Germans ability to hold matchs or produce winning international teams.As effectively there is no change to their general moral/attitude/requirement to killing fish.

 

I dont know where you have got your ideas from Bob but as always Im just basing mine on what Ive actualy experienced.

 

As for Wolfgang "Mein Futter" Kremkus Ive been pegged in the same section twice as him in the long defunct Neinburg Open and can assure you he killed all his catch (as the law demanded) with out any hesitation both times!

 

Maybe you are basing your comments on the fact that the Army now no longer run the big international events that used to be so popular with visiting English match squads during the old UK closed season of that time? If so believe you me there is a lot more to the German match scene than that!

Edited by BUDGIE

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Yup. No doubt about it. When it turns crabby and rather personal - as in the above and in Gerry Castle's (argyll's) pop at me earlier about tablets (I'm on water and coffee tonight, like most nights, Gerz - I hate to have my terrifying intellect impaired by anything) - it's definitely about Hunting. It's the principle they want us to admit to, you see, guys? Taking a few coarse fish for the pot now, taking out a 'nuisance' otter tomorrow... Slippery slopes. Watch them.

 

So does the poll indicate that 70% of coarse anglers "definitely" support Hunting and have a secret agenda?

I do have to agree that your intellect is terrifying :)

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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  • 2 weeks later...

A very interesting read, I just thought I would add a bit.

I am in Adelaide ,Australia and would like to clarify, perch are eaten here and are classed as one of the best eating freshwater fish.

The law does say we are not allowed to release them, but unless they are kept to eat I know they are released unharmed by most. I have never heard of them being wasted.

Carp are treated different as they are considered a pest.

 

One difference here is they can't be wiped out, many have tried.

They are also so easy to catch here it's not funny, no small hooks and specially methods needed here.

Heavy lines and big hooks will catch big carp here, although trying to get them on 1 pound line is more fun.

 

I would say that all of our freashwater contains carp and plenty contain perch as well, I caught my first recently on a softplastic lure first cast. We caught quite a few that day.

 

I wont get too involved with whether they should be eaten or not over there.

I guess it makes interesting fishing if the fish become harder to catch after a few times.

 

I admit I do eat fish I catch, mainly saltwater varieties, but I also release alot, probably more than I would keep.

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So does the poll indicate that 70% of coarse anglers "definitely" support Hunting and have a secret agenda?

I do have to agree that your intellect is terrifying :)

 

Just looked in on AngNet for the first time in a few days. Read the Aussie's comments about carp etc in Oz, then found this old un from Sportie Boy (above). Are you innumerate, Sport'? Or someone trending towards creative accounting rather than damned lies and statistics? Or, as I suspect, just plain desperate and border-line deranged?

 

Yours in sport (Angling, in my case) etc,

 

PB

"What did you expect to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically...?"

 

Basil Fawlty to the old bat, guest from hell, Mrs Richards.

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Hi downunderer and welcome.

 

My part of the world does not see anything like the angling pressure the UK has but even here, fish do wise up when they have been caught a time or two - at least the preds that are sought for sport.

 

Carp are almost not fished for here on purpose so I can't be sure but I'm guessing they wise up as well.

 

If you ignore the oldtimers sniping at each other, this is a friendly forum and we hope to see more of you.

" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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